crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
  
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I run Pirelli Scorpions on 19" HSE wheels and have for some time enjoyed the magic carpet ride I now associate with the D3. Unfortunately, a couple of weeks ago I had a puncture in an almost new front tyre which had to be replaced. I decided to swap the new spare with the other front at the same time so I had new tyres on both fronts.
Since this time I get what feels like the wobble from an out of balanced wheel. It's anything above about 50 mph and is very irritating - on a long journey it shakes enough to give you pins and needles in your hands! I've had terrible trouble trying to get both fronts balanced - Both done three times now, with different results each time (which may be revealing). Still can't get that lovely smooth ride back.
Any idea's what it might be?
Thanks. 2005 D3 HSE
2011 D4 Landmark
2016 D4 HSE Lux
2017 Ford Tourneo VR46
Club Waitomo
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 28th Feb 2008 1:47 pm |
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Bodsy
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Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
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It does sound like balance somewhere along the line.
Bizarre as it might sound, have they taken the tyres off the rim (or at least broken the seal & moved the tyre position?) It might make for a better balance (but this is only a theory) I think there is someone who owned a tyre fitters on here somewhere may be able to help further......
EDIT They're not directional tyres are they? Perhaps one in the wrong direction.....? Bodsys Brake Bible
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| 28th Feb 2008 1:52 pm |
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crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
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Thank you Bodsy, good thoughts...
I did go out and check they're not directional because I had that same thought. I haven't asked anyone to re-fit the tyres as I hadn't heard that before, but it's worth a try. I've even started wondering whether one of the tyres isn't round! - That's what it feels like. Trouble is the more you notice this the worse it gets... if you know what I mean. 2005 D3 HSE
2011 D4 Landmark
2016 D4 HSE Lux
2017 Ford Tourneo VR46
Club Waitomo
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| 28th Feb 2008 8:38 pm |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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Worth a try....  Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 28th Feb 2008 9:51 pm |
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Claud
Member Since: 03 Mar 2007
Location: Surrey
Posts: 152
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Chessington tyres in Guildford did a bad job of balancing my wheels first time round. Had bad vibration with 4 new 18" scorpions. I had to stand by the boys when they re did all four tyres to ensure they did it correctly. Ended up with 100gms on one wheel.
I wont be going back there again they are cheap but have never balanced the wheels right on any of my cars. 2016 D4 Landmark
2010 Freelander SD4 XS Auto
and a few older Land Rovers from the 1950's
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| 28th Feb 2008 10:12 pm |
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simonsi
Member Since: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 1264
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Yep, mark rim and tyre with chalk, break the bead and rotate the tyre 180deg compared to where it was on the rim and reinflate and rebalance - tyres and wheels are manufactured to tolerances, if you have the out-of-balance point on the tyre coinciding with the out-of-balance point of the wheel then the combined effect can defeat a balancing machine. rotating the tyre compared to the rim may/should bring the combo back into a combined tolerance that can be balanced more easily. Cheers
Simon
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| 28th Feb 2008 10:12 pm |
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BLFarrar
Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222
 
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Ask your tyre shop if they have or when last they calibrated the balancing machine...they should have a special disk they put on the spindle & run the calibration procedure that nulls out any discrepancy the machine has (unbalanced masses) & zeroes it.
Then be sure when they do each wheel they put the appropriate amount at each side of the wheel at the rim at the right degree the machine shows....some tyre fitters aren't that careful & think they know better than the machine...this is not possible...dynamic balancing is a precise subject & on a tyre works in Gramme-millimetres at the two axes the wheel has...some machines have to have a tyre / wheel width in putted for a true / accurate / consistent result
Some of the young guys aren't the best & don't pay attention to detail..
When they have put both weights on they should re test the wheel it should be zero...if they have to add more weights there is something wrong
I cant work out what moving the wheel around the rim would do except make the amount the assembly balance with less weights overall if by some fluke the unbalanced masses in the tyre where at exactly the same point as the wheel on two wheels...the odds on this are remote.....this is the whole point of balancing the wheel/tyre assembly in the first place
ATS used to have Schenck balancing machines at some their branches...these machines are the best technically....you could go to a specialist tyre shop (ask around there is usually one in each city location) they fit the costly tyres to exotic cars & are used to dealing with oddball situations....often the big diameter wheels & skinny tyres are a  to balance BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
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| 29th Feb 2008 12:26 am |
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crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
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Thank you everyone for the useful suggestions.
The three times I've tried to get the tyres balanced so far have been at three different places (usually when passing and getting frustrated) - funny thing is, each one said the tyres were well out and I watched as they started again with new weights and zero'd with a check at the end... I'll try to get an expert on to it tomorrow - move the tyres on the rims - rebalance and probably try swapping front to back as well. If that doesn't work it'll be easier to sell the car!!! 2005 D3 HSE
2011 D4 Landmark
2016 D4 HSE Lux
2017 Ford Tourneo VR46
Club Waitomo
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| 29th Feb 2008 12:48 am |
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norto
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: batemans bay
Posts: 1605
 
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This may have already been posted....
Some times the centre of the wheel is not in "the centre of the wheel"
Try to find a tyre shop that has a tool that mounts the wheel
on their balancer by the stud holes.
It was the only way i could balance some customers early Rangies.
Also make sure there is no mud on the inside of the wheels
and some of the spray in puncture repair "glue"
will run into a ball and upset the balance.
maybe none of these but if all else fails get some one to
put it on an on car balancer. Pete
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| 29th Feb 2008 2:12 am |
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norto
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: batemans bay
Posts: 1605
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Also check to see that the tyre hasnt "gone out of round" Pete
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| 29th Feb 2008 2:15 am |
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crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
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I'll do that too, thanks norto. 2005 D3 HSE
2011 D4 Landmark
2016 D4 HSE Lux
2017 Ford Tourneo VR46
Club Waitomo
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| 29th Feb 2008 2:27 am |
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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689
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Tyres are imperfect and have light and heavy points on them, the light point usuall marked with a yellow dot. They also may have a red dot to indicate the high point (they are rarely perfectly round). Wheels similarly will have a dimple to mark the low point. If the person mounting the tyre has mounted the high point anywhere other than on the low point of the wheel it's possible to balance the wheel with weights but it can still cause vibration, hence the suggestion to remount the tyre.
I'd get a tyre centre to remove the tyre and remount it before balancing, checking the sidewall and wheel markings carefully and see if that solves it.
Very informative site on tyres here:
http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
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| 29th Feb 2008 9:51 am |
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crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
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Thanks everyone for all the suggestions...
I went to my most trusted local tyre place today, and they were very patient listening to all the suggestions from here, (even though I didn't buy the tyres from them). After taking both front tyres off and looking at the balance - they were indeed both found to be way out again - not sure why?
Anyway they moved each tyre 180 deg. around the wheel, refitted and rebalanced again. Double checked each wheel three times and all came up OK.
After two long motorway trips today, I can confirm all is back to normal and the magic carpet ride has returned. Yipee!
The tyre garage said this shouldn't have made a difference - and they seemed a bit puzzled, but all's well now...
Thanks again everyone on here for your great advice.
(And my local place has now bought my custom, the next time I need new tyres) 2005 D3 HSE
2011 D4 Landmark
2016 D4 HSE Lux
2017 Ford Tourneo VR46
Club Waitomo
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| 29th Feb 2008 5:46 pm |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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Good to know my theory can be used in practice Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 1st Mar 2008 10:49 am |
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BLFarrar
Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222
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you got a result that works. BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
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| 1st Mar 2008 8:42 pm |
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