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brainbyte
Member Since: 19 Sep 2017
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18
  
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| Transmission Leak - Oil level check and top up a solution ?? |
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Hello everyone,
I recently observed that the automatic transmission on my 2005 LR3 has been leaking some fluid at the vacuum control sleeve (fairly common problem). The quantity of the fluid being lost seems to be very small, and it seems to happen only when I do not drive for longer periods of time. But I am a little bit worried because I do not know for how long this has been happening, as I bought the car back in September (second-hand), and I am not sure if the previous owner was aware of this problem or not. For the moment, I bought a complete kit with a metal pan and detachable filter, together with the gasket and the required bolts. I also bought a new plastic vacuum sleeve with new rubber gasket seals on it. The only problem is that the kit also included 7 liters of some type of Comma MVATF Plus transmission fluid full synthetic, which guess what ... has the color "red". And I understood that if the color of the transmission fluid is "red", then it is a NO GO for the LR3 transmissions. So now I have to order other 7 liters of transmission fluid, but this time, of ZF Lifeguard 6 fluid type.
My first question in this case is: If I want to just add some additional quantity of ZF 6 fluid to cope with what is lost, just as a temporary solution until I have enough time and I can make the filter swap and complete oil change procedure, would that be ok ?
My second question: How exactly should I check for the correct fluid level, and how should I perform the top up ? By removing the filler plug with engine cold, see if it spills, then add some more fluid, start engine, check temperature, put some more fluid in, cycle through gears, etc. etc. ?
My third question: How do I remove the screws holding the actual plastic pan, the ones which are located the front and the back ? Because I looked under the car, and they are currently located in rather tight / hard to get places. I mean, I will try a DIY oil and filter change, without removing any cross member or lifting the transmission box, engine or whatever.
Any thoughts or advice in this case from anyone that has already had to do with this procedure, and maybe a few steps to follow, or a pointer to a link with detailed instructions or something, would be much appreciated. Thank you very much in advance.
Cheers and best regards.
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 12th Nov 2017 1:31 am |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10365
 
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1 - There is one brand of red fluid that is meant to be suitable, but sadly you are likely to be correct at needing to change it.
2 - To check the level :
In the morning before car has been used
Briefly drive the car for less than 5 minutes, just so the temperature gauge moves off the bottom.
park on level ground
lift suspension up and axel stand for safety
apply park brake
WITH ENGINE STILL RUNNING
remove filler plug. If a little oil comes out that is the correct level.
As it has been leaking I guess its unlikely to be correct.
Personally I wouldn't bother with all that if you are going to change within 3 weeks.
3 - bolt removal.
On the exhaust side, spray oil (e.g WD40) into the top of the threads and allow to soak (to prevent the bolts snapping off)
I think the cross members can stay in place and you get tools to work round them.
Obviously to get to cut off the plastic filter tube with a blade.
The rear cross member is fairly easy to remove.
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| 12th Nov 2017 11:40 am |
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sputnixb51
Member Since: 23 Apr 2013
Location: Morayshire
Posts: 833
 
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Seven mm ratchet ring spanner is your friend with the correct sized torn bit in it a bit of cloth keeps it there. Bahco to a brilliant set of ratchet rings two different sizes on each head.
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| 12th Nov 2017 12:42 pm |
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brainbyte
Member Since: 19 Sep 2017
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18
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Thank you everyone for your replies. All this information will prove handy. But first, I need to buy another 7 liters of ATF, this time the correct one. Until then, the filter, vacuum sleeve and oil change project is on pending state ... lack of funds I am afraid  . As I gave my last penny on ordering the kit I got, with the COMMA red fluid.
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| 13th Nov 2017 10:42 am |
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brainbyte
Member Since: 19 Sep 2017
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18
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Me again ...
This is the e-mail reply I got today from the UK supplier where I bought the filter + ATF kit:
"Hi,
The oil supplied is still suitable for the ZF gearbox. All comma do is put a dye in the fluid, it is still the correct oil and fluid for the gearbox. If it was not suitable, we would not offer it, or sell it. We are Land Rover Specialists, and check the suitability of the products we sell. We have even used the Comma fluid in our own vehicles, so rest assured the fluid is correct and hits all the specs needed for the ZF gearbox. If the fluid causes an issue, we will get the full support of Comma, as they recommend the oil for the vehicle as well. If you want to check the comma site, please feel free to, but the oil is suitable for the vehicle."
So what do you all think ? Because honestly, I still have doubts in putting other oil besides the ZF LG 6 in my LR3 transmission.
Cheers.
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| 13th Nov 2017 2:41 pm |
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brainbyte
Member Since: 19 Sep 2017
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18
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... the idea is that the supplier`s representative that sent me the e-mail, seems to be right ... as I checked the COMMA website, which happens to have a mirrored version in my native language, and indeed, using the vehicle selector option, this oil COMMA MVATF Fully Synthetic is recommended for the LR3 ZF 6HP26 transmission box.
http://www.ro.commaoil.com/products/results/91040648 (Romanian website)
http://www.ro.commaoil.com/passenger-vehicles/products/view/180
And if you closely read the description, you will clearly see in the Performance Profile (Profil de Performanta) section, the specification M-1375.4 which happens to appear in the Owner`s Service Manual of the LR3 at the Fluids section.
?????
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| 13th Nov 2017 3:04 pm |
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lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
 
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I think the red comment was from the early days when people did not realise and put atf in avery auto box.
I had a merc gearbox reconned years ago and the guy told me they use atf in everything and have never had an issue ever.
So if it meets the spec and you are low on oil just remember any oil is better than no oil.
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| 13th Nov 2017 7:53 pm |
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kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6575
 
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brainbyte wrote:... the idea is that the supplier`s representative that sent me the e-mail, seems to be right ... as I checked the COMMA website, which happens to have a mirrored version in my native language, and indeed, using the vehicle selector option, this oil COMMA MVATF Fully Synthetic is recommended for the LR3 ZF 6HP26 transmission box.
http://www.ro.commaoil.com/products/results/91040648 (Romanian website)
http://www.ro.commaoil.com/passenger-vehicles/products/view/180
And if you closely read the description, you will clearly see in the Performance Profile (Profil de Performanta) section, the specification M-1375.4 which happens to appear in the Owner`s Service Manual of the LR3 at the Fluids section.
?????
I used BG312 Universal Synthetic ATF which states that they meet or exceed the following for Land Rover: “ESSO LT71141, TEXACO N402, TYK500050, LRN 13754, TEXACO ETL-7045E, STC 4863, STC 505.31, LR 002748” and the following for ZF Friedrichshafen AG “TE-ML: 02F, 03D, 04D, 05L, 09, 11A, 11B, 14A, 14B, 14C, 16L, 17C, SHELL LA 2634, LT 71141, LifeGuard Fluid 6 (S671090255), LifeGuard Fluid 6 Plus (S671090281), LifeGuard Fluid 8 (AA00601304), (S671090312”)” so most likely you’re totally fine with Comma, too, if they list that they’re equivalent to the original. Comma is a fairly large company and so is BG. Particularly the Americans (BG) wouldn’t claim they’re interchangeable if they wouldn’t be due to liability reasons.
AFAIK the coloring is there to prevent silly mistakes like people putting the wrong type of fluid in the engine/ATF/PSF/brake fluid/etc.. My understanding is that’s it is just a dye.
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| 13th Nov 2017 8:21 pm |
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brainbyte
Member Since: 19 Sep 2017
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18
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So, thank you all for your replies. 
Yesterday, I finally completed the conversion to metal pan/removable filter and ATF change using the COMMA fluid I got in my kit. I initially estimated around 2 hours to complete everything ... but it took me 5 hours in total. Why ? Because of the front and back screws on the plastic pan, which are placed in so tight places, that my fingers barely made it to fix a wrench on them. Anyway, I followed the exact step-by-step procedure, removing the filler cap, which once gain it was a PITA to unscrew, and I had to use a 90 degrees metal handle with the hexagonal key at the end to force open that up. Then drained the fluid, removed the 21 bolts ... etc. etc. One tough moment was to replace the plastic vacuum sleeve. The old one came out in a snap because the rubber seals had visible signs of wear, but not the classical signs of corrosion. The new sleeve ... well ... even if I coated the rubber seals with a little bit of silicon to make it go in easier, I had to apply a considerable force to push it in. So no more leaks on this side from now on.
All in all the procedure went on just fine. I am not sure how many liters of ATF I pulled out, but I put back in around 5,5 liters of ATF, from the total of 7 liters. By the way, the old ATF fluid appeared very clean, and I found no metal particles around the two magnets on the plastic pan I removed. And the manufacture date I found written on the plastic pan said 4th May 2017. So, I guess the former owner of the car did a ATF change this year, as I bought it on 9th September. My main problem was that the vacuum sleeve was leaking fluid, so I had to perform the entire ATF change and metal pan/removable filter procedure anyway.
Now, let`s wait and see how she will perform. Since yesterday I did couple of trips with the car and I was not able to observe or feel anything different or any anomaly in the working of the transmission box, in changing gears, or otherwise. No weird noises, no nothing.
Now, I assume I will probably have to repeat the filter and fluid changing process around 5 to 8 years, or after a certain number of kilometers, correct ? I would like to mention that I do not put too much burden on the car, and I do not drive sporty too often. I bought this car just to have a "tank" to take me and my family almost anywhere I want.
Now ... it`s time for the Webasto project ... 
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| 16th Nov 2017 11:01 am |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10365
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yes, getting the new sleeve in can be difficult.
I used a bit of wood to hammer it in.
That's annoying you had to waste new filter and oil, but a lesson to us all to remember to change the sleeve while the sump is off.
Hopefully you won't need to change the oil again
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| 16th Nov 2017 1:10 pm |
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