Member Since: 25 Mar 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 100
Just got off the phone after chatting with Tom Miller, who is the Design and Production director at Tow Trust.
He sounded like a very genuine person, passionate about his product line, and actually was the original designer of this bar.
Basically, mine is as it should be.
Hoping I've got the facts straight, here is some detail...
The two pix showing the top welds will be older bars, that were powder coated.
Since the move to e-coating, the design was amended slightly in January 2018. I bought mine in May this year, so it's the new design.
The first change was to change the pin that holds the main part into the Disco chassis slot to an M16 bolt. This was to address the issues covered elsewhere in this forum about wear and loose fit in those slots, and why LR now say the removable bar is for occasional use only.
The second change was to do away with the top (and bottom) welds, as testing showed they do nothing, but could have had some affect on the e-coating process, which relies on full movement of the various fluids during the multi-step (13 I think he said) dips and bakes, and there was some scope there for those welds to create crannies to retain some fluid which is not desirable.
He accepts that it does look odd, and that he has had quite a few queries about it - I'm not the first!
There has never been a weld on the inner edge, because of access limitations, and it's not needed.
The metal parts are laser cut, and this results in sharp 90 degree edges, and the extension plates (the two coming out to the flange plate) are bent to make sure the tow ball holes are not blocked. This means that they don't meet square, but at an angle.
I forgot to ask why they couldn't have been ground down to fit flush with the flange plate, but he assures me that the welds there are very strong, so I guess it's simply not needed.
The inch of weld allowing a tonne of force is apparently an old thing, albeit still good for a rule of thumb, but modern techniques have surpassed that.
Like the stopping distances shown in the Highway Code - modern cars stop way better than when those were drawn up.
But the length of the two welds is more than enough, even using that measure.
All of their bars that use that type of extension bar, and that's not just the TL1, are now all made that way, and look the same.
He says that the testing facilities at Tow Trust are the best available, and he extends an invitation to anyone that is interested to go and check them out. Alternatively check out their videos on YouTube showing the testing regime.
He is very proud of their products, and simply will not allow anything to leave the factory that is not up to the job, and then some.
My son is at Warwick Uni, not far from the factory, and I will certainly be taking him up on his offer to go and take a look around.
Appreciate the interest and input - thanks to all!
Last edited by ASPGuru on 24th Jul 2018 8:48 am. Edited 1 time in total
19th Jul 2018 5:56 pm
James W
Member Since: 27 Mar 2008
Location: Wirral, UK
Posts: 3067
Interesting stuff, Mark!
Would you be able to take another photo of your bar so we can see it more clearly with the tow bar in focus? Trying to compare what they said to your picture. Just purely out of interest!
ThanksD4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
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19th Jul 2018 6:34 pm
ASPGuru
Member Since: 25 Mar 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 100
Since the move to e-coating, the design was amended slightly in January 2018...
The second change was to do away with the top (and bottom) welds, as testing showed they do … There has never been a weld on the inner edge, because of access limitations, and it's not needed.
…
means that they don't meet square, but at an angle.
well … that's my theory properly shot down.
19th Jul 2018 6:57 pm
James W
Member Since: 27 Mar 2008
Location: Wirral, UK
Posts: 3067
Many thanks! To be fair that looks a lot better than your first photo, where the angle of both sides seemed odd and it didn't look square at all. It still looks like those side pieces come in at a sharper angle than the others posted here, don't they. My instinct would be to flatten that angle and weld them square to the tow ball plate but I have no idea what I'm talking about so obvious it's not needed!
Nice one for the update D4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
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Well as`55year as a coded welder i would say it is not good and by the way re did my coding last year i am now 70 still say its not right .
not that i still do what i did
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19th Jul 2018 8:30 pm
Erea
Member Since: 19 Mar 2012
Location: Munster
Posts: 1509
I stand corrected, I’m sure they have tested that joint well past any expected loading it could encounter, so it’s perfectly safe, But it still doesn’t look right, I’d be taking it off and attacking it with my pickhill bantam
19th Jul 2018 9:40 pm
gareth71
Member Since: 10 Apr 2016
Location: North-east Wales
Posts: 547
To me, the response you received sounds most reassuring! Most companies would just fob you off with a "yes, it's fine, there's no problem" from an anonymous customer service person. The fact that you had a conversation with the design/production director, who gave you such detailed information, suggests that this is a company who are proud of their products and who care about their customers, and if I was in the market for a tow-bar I'd buy from them in a heartbeat!
don't we have a forum member who does the testing ? can't remember who it is though
23rd Jul 2018 4:39 pm
ASPGuru
Member Since: 25 Mar 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 100
Sorry, been stuck working for a few days.
Don't think much to your workplace there Ray!
Agree Gareth, no quibble whatsoever about the response from Tow Trust, especially Tom.
It is with some embarrassment though that I have to report that I have had to replace the bar with the Thule/Brink fixed one (could have done the Witter, but got a good deal on the pricier T/B one). Still don't want a removable bar.
Nothing to do with the weld, I'm comfortable with that after speaking with Tom at Tow Trust, although I guess some small part part of me would be wondering about it, but simply because it is too high for my caravan.
It is within the 350-420mm (or whatever the numbers are) range that my 'van is supposed to work with, but it was too nose up for my liking.
Too high on the nose is not good for stability, plus it means the back is too low so chances are I'd clout it against something.
The issue lies mainly with the caravan, rather than the tow bar, but part of the attraction of that TL1 bar was the up out of the way fitting, which of course has to mean it will be high, compared with the other makes of fixed bars which hang down.
Even with the car in off-road height the lowest tow ball fitting is still lower on the T/B bar than it is on the TT one with the car at normal height, and even that is higher than the VW Caravelle I towed with before.
So I've got an uglier looking bar now, that will no doubt make a wonderful plough as the departure angle now sucks, but can tow the 'van at a decent level, plus I now have 250Kg load rating on the ball (TT and Witter ones are rated 150Kg), and the spare is a lot easier to get in and out.
So I was surprised to hear the Brink/Thule one is lower. We should do a wiki table with the towball height of different bars with and without Alko tow balls on them.
What have you done with the TT1?D4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
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24th Jul 2018 12:25 pm
jeeptj
Member Since: 22 Jun 2018
Location: Washington
Posts: 34
I can weld although not certified and I think the weld on all of them look crap, the first one I am astonished a company would send that out the door and the others are not much better, if any.
Because the plates have been mounted on an angle they will be affected by side loading much more than if mounted straight or plates angled to sit flush, meaning more of a reason to weld internal edges too. they need fully seamed welding and i would be asking for the test data on all loading's there design will withstand including weld penetration evidence, personally I would be removing them all and go to a steel Fab company and ask them to finish the job as material is up to the job but I would not trust them welds.
24th Jul 2018 12:59 pm
ASPGuru
Member Since: 25 Mar 2007
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 100
Must admit James that I didn't do anything scientific like measure anything - just hooked up and took a look.
Probably panicked a little bit, with our trip looming, and my shifts not allowing me any wiggle room I felt I had to do something.
One thing that might make a difference is that the Thule/Brink bar (think Witter is the same) comes with it's own drop plate, and I've got that set to it's lowest position.
Not even thought about what to do with the old bar - that'll have to wait a couple of weeks.19?? Lightweight 3.5V8 1977 109" FFR 1987 110 CSW DT 1991 Discovery 200TDi 2000 Defender 110 CSW Td5 2004 VW Caravelle, that we won't talk about 2015 Discovery SE Tech 3.0 SDV6 Aruba Gold
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though that I have to report that I have had to replace the bar with the Thule/Brink fixed one (could have done the Witter, but got a good deal on the pricier T/B one). Still don't want a removable bar.
