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willib
Member Since: 07 Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3
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| Snow Chains For 2013 Discovery 4 TDV6 3.0 [Updated] |
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Hi All,
I would really appreciate some assistance in determining which snow chains are safe, reliable, suitable, practical and legal for my stock 2013 Discovery 4 TDV6 3.0. Have been scouring the internet, talking to dealers but cannot find a clear answer. As far as I can tell the stock wheel & tire combo are 255/55 19.
Safe & Reliable
I want to be able to drive at reasonable speeds on snow, ice, mud and slush covered asphalt up and down from Australian ski-fields 2 or 3 times per year for at least 5 years (yes we do have some snow in Australia!). We don't get much snow, but a reliable melt-freeze and occasional poor maintenance can make our road surfaces pretty treacherous.
Suitable
Gap
Why is it so hard for Land Rover to publish a minimum clearance? I get that it may involve complicated moving parts, but there must be a minimum gap (or gaps); perhaps different for each wheel and tire, front, rear, left and right? I don't mind! Otherwise we would get a nasty burnt rubber smell or scraping of alloy rims on suspension. I realise that variables such as tire pressure, tire wear, tire temp, aftermarket accessories (e.g. spinning hubcaps) and speed could shrink or grow the gap. But assuming some reasonable tolerances can't be too hard? surely....?
Failing an official statement - what is your gap and what model Discovery?
Front, Rear or Both
I have read all sorts about chains on the front, rear or both. (Partly because it seems there is more gap in the back). In summary it appears traction mode and potential damage to parts (suspension, AC etc) inform Land Rover's instruction to only run chains on the front. There are anecdotes of professionals running rear and/or both and swearing by them Link
How do you run your chains; front, rear or both? Why?
Brand and Model
Land Rover official traction control system is just re-badged Spikes Spider, which is described variously as fantastic, but possibly unsuitable for heavy 4x4 link
What brand and model chains do you use? How much gap did they need? How have they been?
Practical
I don't want to have to buy a second set of tires/wheels to fit chains or run winter tires. We drive around 350km to get to our ski fields, and it is only the last 25km that might require chains. I also have nowhere to keep them.
Legal
Australian ski fields are leading the way in road safety. Mount Hotham outlaws spider chains and snow-socks link but have not advised whether to expect a global roll-out of their policy, or if any action is being taken against companies purporting to offer traction devices inappropriate for Mount Hotham conditions. (Waxing your skis is still considered fair game.  )
Suggestions so far
Spikes Spider Alpine Pro link, Pros: Zero clearance, Fast fit. Cons: Cost. Query heavy 4x4. Only legal to use globally with exception of Mount Hotham
Thule K-Summit link, Pros: Zero clearance, Fast fit. Cons: Cost. Only legal to use globally with exception of Mount Hotham
Maggi Trak 4x4 link, Pros: Zero clearance, Fast fit. Cons: Cost. Only legal to use globally with exception of Mount Hotham
Thanks for all your suggestions and comments!
I can't find a version of the Weissenfels Clack & Go Quattro that will fit the 255/55 19 combination.
I have now experimented with my hand behind the front right wheel of my Discovery (while parked) and would gauge the smallest gap at about 2 delicate fingers. (delicate finger = 9mm). It would seem possible to fit a chain in there, but would leave very little room for fitting error. So assuming that I'm happy to try my luck with either the AP4 or the K-Summit, does anyone have experience purchasing online* and having them delivered to Australia (or other similar non EU, US country such as New Zealand or even Tasmania).
*Australia not only leads the world in snow safety innovations but also in fair and reasonable pricing.
Last edited by willib on 16th Jul 2013 11:31 am. Edited 1 time in total
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 7th Jul 2013 12:59 pm |
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BLFarrar
Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222
  
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Spike Spiders....
easy to fit....effective in use.....long lasting
& they have superb grip
PLUS.....they dont have the disadvantage in breaking strands & wiping brake pipes out etc
PLUS PLUS..as they are quick to put on take off...you can effect the change when on tarmac - snow - tarmac mixes
My eldest daughter uses Spike Spiders throughout the very unpredictable NZ Southern Alp road conditions...rotten roads in winter with little snow clearing & zero gritting.
....nows the time to get them when they have stock in place BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
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| 7th Jul 2013 1:19 pm |
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Swiss-LR
Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: In the middle
Posts: 55
  
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My demands differ from yours but perhaps, my suggestion helps either.
In Switzerland I did 95% of my ways in winter with 4x4 and winter tires but without chains.
The only reasons I mounted them were due to advice of a legal representative (once) or to handle realy slippery conditions on polished snow or combined snow-ice-routes on steep roads.
For this demands, I will buy the Thule XG-12 Pro, Size 265 for my winter wheels 255/55 R19 on my MY2013 Disco 4 (no modifications like spacers, special rims, etc.).
The XG-12 is a thin chain (12mm) and I wouldn't recommend it for any other conditions than pure winter (no mud, offroad, ...). On the other hand, less thickness means more clearance and my experiences with Thule snowchains are very good over more than 20 years.
As said, I don't need some heavy duty stuff but a snow-chain with a good fit for extreme winter conditions where I need the extra-safety.
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| 10th Jul 2013 12:35 pm |
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RichardB
Member Since: 03 May 2010
Location: Hants
Posts: 485
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Regarding front or back or both. For a Disco, go with LRs guidance on front only.
The rationale here is that chains need to be fitted to the drive wheels. When you have front drive, this is great as its steering too and 'pull' is typically better than 'push' anyway on snow/ice. Rear drive is always more compromised, hence why RWD brigade are so poor. Thus, for LR front is the right way to go! Both rear and front - well probably super overkill and getting very expensive!
Alternative to Spiders include:
Thule K Summit - they do a version for big SUVs
Maggi TRAK 4x4
I've used Maggi in europe and these always seem to come up considerably cheaper than Spider or Thule.
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| 11th Jul 2013 12:14 pm |
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Swiss-LR
Member Since: 08 Jan 2013
Location: In the middle
Posts: 55
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Hi Richard
I agree to you in general.
RichardB wrote:The rationale here is that chains need to be fitted to the drive wheels. When you have front drive, this is great as its steering too and 'pull' is typically better than 'push' anyway on snow/ice.
But if you go down a steep, icy road, the rear wheels are the pulling ones and if the back of your disco overtakes you, the snow chains on the front probably won't help.
RichardB wrote:Both rear and front - well probably super overkill and getting very expensive!
guess or experience?
I have read this from different sources but haven't read reasonable facts about that.
The diameters of all wheels are equal and the drivetrain should have less work because the slippage of the axles is not that different than with one pair on a single axle.
That are my thougts.
RichardB wrote:Maggi TRAK 4x4
Interesting, I will have a look at them
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| 11th Jul 2013 12:32 pm |
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RichardB
Member Since: 03 May 2010
Location: Hants
Posts: 485
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Some fair points
On rear overtaking the front on an icy downhill... Yes, I've wondered about this and can see the theory but i have never felt it happening personally. Personally, I do prefer chains on FWD to RWD on snow but would alwys choose 4x4 to either! Might be an issue if travelling too fast, on a corner and then breaking hard!!!
edit: I believe the theory, if the front end starts to over take going down very Steep downhill, is the same as for offload situation in same, low grip, situations, gentle slight accelerate to pull the car straight again before gentle breaking. I did try this once on dry dusty slope at LRE, albeit without the skid bit first. I didn't particularly enjoy accelerating down the very steep hill but it was worth knowing!
Guess or experience. Experience on cost! But i will admit to never having fitted two pairs of snow chains either, used one pair a lot over the years and have always been able to get where I needed to (unless road was basically closed / uncleared anyway). Given the general pain in fitting one set, even when on the level, its not something I expect to volunteer to try anytime soon! (Like you, I've decided we will definately fit winter tyres this year even though the Disco has faired very well the last two winters on ATs in some pretty heavy conditions.)
Maggi TRAK worked fine at about half cost of Spiders but I suspect the Spiders are still the quickest to fit. Must tighten up the nut onto the wheel nut very firmly though to stop them coming off but I believe this is true of all these types. I'd be interested to know if the XG-12 pro really can be run on front Disco wheels though. (I ran Maggi TRAKs on a BMW 5 series where it was impossible to reach over the tyre to fit conventional chains. Jacking the car up in an uneven layby to fit the chains and worrying about the car slipping off the jack and shattering both forearms was something I only did once...). At present as we tend to drive and ski in France, I've been carrying snow socks instead as these are legal when chains are mandated here. Never needed to use them in the past two years though.
(Currently wrihting this in Tignes, relaxing after a morning skiing on the glacier at 3400+m. No need for chains at the moment though  )
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| 11th Jul 2013 1:12 pm |
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phl
Member Since: 07 Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 111
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| Re: Snow Chains For 2013 Discovery 4 TDV6 3.0 |
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willib wrote:Australian ski fields are leading the way in road safety. Mount Hotham outlaws spider chains and snow-socks link but have not advised whether to expect a global roll-out of their policy, or if any action is being taken against companies purporting to offer traction devices inappropriate for Mount Hotham conditions. (Waxing your skis is still considered fair game. )[/list]
I think you're SOL WRT Hotham; AFAIK, due to tiny clearance, you need a spider chain type setup. The LR snow chains sold in Australia are of that type. I gather normal chains will foul on the inside of the wheels.
One other spider type is Thule.
Does Hotham have exception for OE snow chains?
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| 12th Jul 2013 11:53 am |
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BLFarrar
Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222
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My eldest (works & lives in the southern Alps...the eastern islands to you....NZ)
has without me knowing renewed her spike spiders to these....
Clack & Go
http://www.snowchains.co.uk/snowchains/Wei...+and+Vans/
....she has reported that whatever the difference is......they are superior to Spike Spiders
apart from the daft name - they are awesome grip wise....made by Weisenfels
Good Luck ! BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
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| 12th Jul 2013 8:37 pm |
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willib
Member Since: 07 Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3
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Thanks for all your suggestions and comments!
I can't find a version of the Weissenfels Clack & Go Quattro that will fit the 255/55 19 combination.
I have now experimented with my hand behind the front right wheel of my Discovery (while parked) and would gauge the smallest gap at about 2 delicate fingers. (delicate finger = 9mm). It would seem possible to fit a chain in there, but would leave very little room for fitting error. So assuming that I'm happy to try my luck with either the AP4 or the K-Summit, does anyone have experience purchasing online* and having them delivered to Australia (or other similar non EU, US country such as New Zealand or even Tasmania).
*Australia not only leads the world in snow safety innovations but also in fair and reasonable pricing.
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| 16th Jul 2013 11:43 am |
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Dinsdale
Member Since: 29 Jun 2011
Location: North Norfolk
Posts: 209
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Use MaggiTrak 4x4 on mine, on the front, in the French Alps, very impressive. Have had all sorts for years and last full-wrap chain was Weissenfels Clack & Go 4x4 which HAD to go on the rear wheels of my X3, as there was not enough clearance even, with their low link profile to go on the front.
I felt the Maggi Trak wheel stud fixing mechanism was the easiest and most positive of the ones available where you don't have to fit and leave on the special disc like the Spike Spiders. They also do have some ice spikes in them, whilst the best full-wrap chains can do is some extra cross links. They also fold up the smallest.
I do wonder if you could roll them off the tyre if you were too aggressive in corners but I think you would have to be pretty gung-ho to reach that stage, unless you left them on into clear tarmac.
LR could have supplied/recommended any make of snow chain as their own part and made a mark up. I am sure they have selected a non full-wrap chain for the valid reason of behind the wheel clearance. It does seem remarkable tight behind there for such a big car, but the X3 was even tighter. You can never be really sure what happens to the clearance in dynamic mode with suspension inputs and tyre distortion. I think just a static fit is not always the total answer re clearances. If it don't fit the third time - try a bigger hammer
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| 24th Jul 2013 10:29 pm |
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willib
Member Since: 07 Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3
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I have taken the plunge and invested in a set of Spikes Spider Alpine Pro Size 4 (sold by Amazon UK). It has not been easy getting to this point. (I will freely admit to this being mostly a result of my densely layered ignorance/dumbicity. A bit like an onion.)
* It turns out the Spikes Spider 'Traction Element' (aka snow chains) is useless without you having also bought and installed the Spikes Spider 'Adapter Set'. The traction element connects to the adapter set connects to the wheel
* Despite the hideous price of the traction element it does not include an adapter set
* The adapter set is not one size fits all. You need to choose the correct size adapter set for your wheel lug diameter (the diameter of the spanner needed to shift the lug!)
* You shouldn't panic about your lugs being capped in a sheath stainless steel - even thought the adapter set only attaches to the wheel through squeezing the surface of the lug; and could deform or possibly even pull off the steel cap! It turns out that if you tighten the adapter set nuts with the custom made and provided torque bar the correct amount of squeeze is applied. Hooray for torque bars!
* You shouldn't be concerned that Land Rover Australia appears to have neglected to import any stock of it's re-branded OEM version of the Spikes Spider Sport (the younger sibling of the Alpine Pro) for the Australian Winter. It is possible that the Mt Hotham kerfuffle and potential for customers getting fined 2,800AUD for not having proper snow chains fitted is more influential than any concern about the performance of Spikes Spiders
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| 28th Jul 2013 11:37 am |
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