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Using snow chains in mud

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waterbuoy

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2919

2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Stornoway Grey

Using snow chains in mud

Dear all

We have been putting off a work trip to the SE of England for the past 6 weeks whilst the monsoon conditions existed. However, as the client's 'year end' is approaching we have to do the work by the third week of February in order to get paid.

My problem is that the work involves installing and load testing cableways next to some of the rivers in Kent, Sussex and Surry (thankfully we 'did' the Parret in Somerset back in October

). Loaded up the D3 is on (or over) max gvw with test weights, generators, cables etc.

Thus far the D3 has gone everywhere that the trusty 110 Defender used to go, and more besides, simply shod with a set of BFG ATs. However, recent conditions are making me feel nervous. Has anyone got any experience of using snow chains in muddy conditions? I realise it will not be good for the chains, but am hoping/wondering if it will help to improve traction - experience tells us that waterlogged turf overlying alluvial clays is treacherous stuff!

Any thoughts appreciated, once Rugby is over that is!

Cheers

Tony

PS 650 mile trip each way makes M/T tyres unviable Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)

2nd Feb 2014 12:47 pm

mse

Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2704

2015 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Indus Silver

Snowchains work fine in the mud, there are some different principles to consider and you want to be talking about full chains rather than the other types available. One issue is the tyre you are running them on, full muds (depending on the pattern) can see the chain going into the tread reducing the chains usefulness.

Have a chat with Rudd, they will be able to help you. Mike

2nd Feb 2014 1:32 pm

DiscoDunc

Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390

2010 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Aintree Green

try letting the tyre pressures down first - its a lot easier to pump a tyre up with a 12v pump, than fit and remove snow chains.

used to let mine down to 10psi. if that fails, try the snow chains Duncan
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2nd Feb 2014 4:15 pm

anglefire

Member Since: 09 Mar 2010
Location: In the Club House
Posts: 4180

Quote:
PS 650 mile trip each way makes M/T tyres unviable

Why? I've done the Pyrenees twice on full muds (STT's) and others have done the same. Something like 1000miles each way, and done in 24hours or so too. Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
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2nd Feb 2014 5:14 pm

waterbuoy

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2919

Thanks all

We've tried letting the tyres down but the issue is that once the tread block becomes 'full' with the clay then you are depending on the 'strength' of the clay to overcome the shear stresses imposed by the wheels. We know it works on snow/ice (even rock at times), but have found this not to be the case with the mud we typically come across on the flood plains.

Similarly, I've had BFG MTs on previous vehicles and swore never again for long journeys - might as well have stuck with the Defender! The ATs are an excellent allrounder, and have done us fine for a number of years, but MTs give much to noise (for me anyhow - accept it is likely to be a personal taste thing). I'd rather invest in a set of chains that can also serve their intended purpose when the snow does arrive (ie yesterday, even down to sea level up here) than a second set of MT tyres as they are simply not the right tyre for our typical annual mileage/use pattern (35-45k, with a significant amount of this offroad/on tracks/towing etc, and all heavily laden)

Will contact Rudds (and maybe others) to seek their advice tomorrow

Thanks again

Tony

Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)

2nd Feb 2014 5:44 pm

Russell

Member Since: 23 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564

Where in Kent/Sussex you heading might be able to give you more info on local conditions before you arrive. But many areas down his way are very very wet and some are simply not accessible without a boat

MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
MY15 D4 HSE Kaikoura Stone
MY12 D4 HSE Nara Bronze Sold and gone
MY11 D4 HSE Stornaway Grey Sold and gone
D3 S spec Silver Sold and gone
Tow bar, full length roof bars, side steps, tow bar storage unit, surround camers.
D4 camera club

2nd Feb 2014 9:41 pm

waterbuoy

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2919

Thanks for the offer Russell

We always carry a boat with us (Avon 3.1m but with a soft bottom) and a couple of dry suits as well as waders etc.

The client (EA) usually gives us an update a couple of days before we travel down - the stations are cast far and wide, but to give you a clue their names are as follows:

Arlington
Fittleworth
Isfield
Goldbridge
Pallingham
Stonefield
Tilford (deepest Surrey)
Udiam
Vexour

In the past we have had to pull EA vehicles back to the road that were supposed to be there to guide us in but, as I said initially, we are very aware that most sites will either have been inundated or will still be under water. The added complication is that whilst my primary concern is to get in and out safely, we have also to be careful to ensure that we don't trash the ground which is another reason for staying with the ATs rather than going for MTs.

May be in touch in a week or so before we head south - if it is still really bad then I'll simply pull the plug and postpone the trip (with the exception of this Thursday the next 10 days don't look to be too bad)

Cheers

Tony Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)

3rd Feb 2014 12:00 am

Andrew Hebron

Member Since: 16 Jan 2009
Location: Teddington
Posts: 501

2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual Cairns Blue

I tried snowchains on really muddy ground once in desperation: didn't work - just dug holes more efficiently. Andrew

3rd Feb 2014 1:43 am

Pelyma

Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496

At the weekend Fittleworth was under water, it only needs a little rain for the flooding to build up. DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S

3rd Feb 2014 6:46 am

Gareth
Site Moderator

Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26774

Andrew Hebron wrote:
I tried snowchains on really muddy ground once in desperation: didn't work - just dug holes more efficiently.

agree, and also it would be extremely messy taking them off! Sounds like you have justification for needing a winch?

3rd Feb 2014 7:46 am

sean 471

Member Since: 26 Apr 2011
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2990

2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 Pursuit LE Auto Java Black

I used to work for the EA ask them if it's possible to delay the work until spring. If it's too dangerous then they should be happy with that. You may be able to get paid up front if they need to get te money out of the door this fy

3rd Feb 2014 8:02 am

waterbuoy

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2919

Thank you all again - the feedback re chains digging bigger holes is especially useful and is what I had feared/suspected - the thought had entered my mind 'cos up here the forestry harvesters and forwarders all seem to have chains fitted to their driving tyres to help with traction.

Also aware that Fittleworth can be prone to flooding, as is the site (and access) at Pallingham.

So far as postponing the work is converned an, we have already been in touch with EA about this. However, (a) their project manager is due to start maternity leave at the start of March, and (b) some of the cableways have been damaged by recent events and they are keen that we reinstate asap so that they can get some high flow measurements.

Whilst the winch is an attractive consideration for many reasons, I suspect that it may be miore viable to use quad bike and trailer for the more difficult sites. We are on a fixed price contract and cannot really afford to get too involved in what can be interesting but time consuming diversions!

Thanks again

Tony Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)

3rd Feb 2014 10:18 am

Russell

Member Since: 23 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564

Things are fairly bad down here in Kent especially following the heavey rain over the weekend, many areas are under several inchs of water or the ground is just a bog. If you can then on safety grounds postpone, if not use other alternatives to get access, failling that purchase a Tirfor winch, fairly cheap, no fitting cost, hand operated and can get you out of the mud when things go wrong but make sure you get one man enough for the task. They are simple to use and have key safety devices to stop them from being overloaded. MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
MY15 D4 HSE Kaikoura Stone
MY12 D4 HSE Nara Bronze Sold and gone
MY11 D4 HSE Stornaway Grey Sold and gone
D3 S spec Silver Sold and gone
Tow bar, full length roof bars, side steps, tow bar storage unit, surround camers.
D4 camera club

3rd Feb 2014 10:31 am

waterbuoy

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2919

Thanks again Russell - we carry two tirfors and a couple of chain hoists to rig the cableways - thus far have only had to use them once to recover the vehicle

People might now be understanding why the D3 weighs so much when we have it fully loaded with all our equipment - hence my concerns! Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)

3rd Feb 2014 10:36 am

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