Member Since: 05 Oct 2006
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 17
Diesel Quality
I read with interest recently the way to look after our beloved D3 engines was a regular oil change ie. 7500 miles and use "quality diesel". Should i presume that diesel sold on UK forecourts is not all of a good quality
Best stop using this red stuff Only kidding !!!!!!
I think when they use the word 'quality' in this context they are referring to sulphur content.
In some European countries the sulphur content is quite high and is therefore referred to as poor quality diesel.Back in the game!
10th Jan 2007 10:14 am
Guy2272
Member Since: 05 Oct 2006
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 17
Does that mean the diesel on tesco or asda forecourt is exactly the same as on the shell and texaco forecourt
10th Jan 2007 10:18 am
oliver77
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales
Posts: 398
Test have shown that with most supermarket fuels they degrade very quickly as they are often third world fuel with additives forced into them to raise their quality. If you get the fuel the day after the tanker has been and you use it really quickly I woulnd't expect it to make much difference.
My car never has nor ever will have supermarket fuel in it though, BP, Shell, Esso or Texaco - that's it.
I have not put supermarket diesel in the D3 and I don't think I ever will but...
When I had my Honda Accord, you could really tell the difference in power between supermarket petrol and the petrol from my local Jet garage. I would say that the Morrisons fuel produced about 15% less power.Back in the game!
10th Jan 2007 10:41 am
Ocsid
Member Since: 29 Nov 2005
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 255
I am surprised at Oliver's statements on what test have found about Supermarket fuel.
I travel frequently on the access road, the A326, to Esso’s Fawley fuel refinery and there is a stream of Supermarket tankers plying their way to and from the refinery. Whilst it's an Esso refinery, other leading brands as well as various Supermarkets also pick up product there.
I had assumed that the Supermarkets get their product from the same source as Esso itself and the other brands, not that they pick up low quality product.
What I believe is the case is that the Brands including the Supermarkets individually add their own preferred "additive pack" and this gives the product varying characteristics. Some claim the Supermarkets minimise on this to keep the cost down by just meeting the requisite specification, and that BP etc., use a higher performance "pack" to blend their Ultimate range and the others their own premium offerings.
Personally I have not the slightest concerns about using Supermarket Diesel; however I treat it and the Shell I more frequently get [it’s next door] with Millers Power Plus to lift the fuels Cetane number and lubricity.
What I believe is the better advice is to avoid smaller retailers. Use fuel from high turnover outlets simply because its going to be fresher, more likely to seasonally adjusted and potentially less likely to be contaminated than fuel stored for months awaiting use.
I have been involved for most of my working life in testing and specifying the testing of diesel engine power outputs and for this required the fuel to be sampled and tested for its calorific value. Even from probably the UK’s major refinery it can be all over the place delivery to delivery, but I hasten to say it’s never failed to meet spec.
10th Jan 2007 11:47 am
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
oliver77 wrote:
Test have shown that with most supermarket fuels they degrade very quickly as they are often third world fuel with additives forced into them to raise their quality. If you get the fuel the day after the tanker has been and you use it really quickly I woulnd't expect it to make much difference.
My car never has nor ever will have supermarket fuel in it though, BP, Shell, Esso or Texaco - that's it.
Third world fuel? No sir, that is not the case.
Diesel/fuel quality has been covered at some length on more than one occasion here.
With the exception of major oil company's own premium brands, the fuel you buy at any supermarket in this country meets BS standard.
If you are talking premium fuel, then that is a different matter.
Otherwise, the advise to avoid very low turnover sites probably has some logic to it, though generally you should no be concerned.
Sulphur content is the single biggest threat to your engine - but that is not an issue in the UK.
10th Jan 2007 3:28 pm
nickgriff
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: Switzerland/France
Posts: 58
I work for one of those "large oil companies". It's all the same stuff. Standards have to be the same in Europe as Fuel is sold on the water, and is often not sold when it is loaded onto the ship. There are different grades of Diesel Oil. The different usage will depend on the Sulphur content. For DERV (Diesel Engine Road Vehicle) / EN590 the sulphur content has to be a max level. Higher grades will just have lower than the MAX level allowed, thus are more expensive. Now if you are worried about Diesel.... you really don't want me to talk about aviation jet fuel!!!!!
I've read a few magazine test reports over the years where they test supermarket fuel against the major brands. The test is normally on a performance car like an Subaru Impreza on a rolling road. The supermarket fuels never show any significant difference.
I mostly fill up at Sainsbury's when local and normally use BP when on the motorways (get my Nectar points at both). I've never noticed any difference in the D3 (or any previous vehicle) between fill ups.
The only time I have ever noticed a difference was in my VW Transporter T5 (174ps diesel) when using BP Ulitmate - it did perform a little better. But then it still wasn't worth paying the extra few quid.Matt
10th Jan 2007 6:04 pm
swiss tony
Member Since: 02 Oct 2006
Location: in a sheepskin coat
Posts: 51
it all tastes the same to me!selling land rovers is like making love to a beautiful woman.....
you dont mind getting stuck in the brown stuff from time to time.....
10th Jan 2007 6:11 pm
oliver77
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: Mid Wales
Posts: 398
If only the MOD commissioned report sat on my desk looking into the quality of UK fuels wasn't marked strictly confidential!
All I can say is that non-supermarket, high turnover sites are where I will continue to purchase.
10th Jan 2007 6:38 pm
Bodsy Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
Looks like I'll be sticking to "non-supermarket, high turnover sites"
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset See It Here
10th Jan 2007 6:59 pm
SPOTTER
Member Since: 06 Dec 2006
Location: Adrift........
Posts: 3095
inlcined to agree with O77
so far only run my D3 on Shell, BP etc. but in the past found my Tdi ran much better on these fuels, less smoke etc. Discernible differences seem less noticable with the newer common rail engines.
haven't tried the Millers Power Plus in my D3 yet although I always used it previously, on my wifes car also.
I suspect it all depends how long you want you engine to last end of an era ....... maybe a Defender when it appears.......
10th Jan 2007 7:01 pm
Chris200100
Member Since: 22 Mar 2006
Location: Nr Cardiff
Posts: 532
I used to work for tesco's in a petrol station and I can tell you that the fuel comes from what ever the local fuel depot is, In southwales they are TEXACO,and TOTAL.
If you look at all the fuel depots in the uk they are all large major fuel companies and all petrol stations whatever brand use each others depots eg.SHELL get fuel from BP etc.
The only difference between Tesco fuel and Texaco fuel is the additive.
I've used both supermarket diesel and named branded diesel and there is no difference in performance.
All fuels in the uk are made to the same standard, diesel is BS590.Focus ST500
Range Rover Classic
other modes of transport:- Volvo FM13 Globetrotter (13L 440bhp, 2200nm) nice new one
10th Jan 2007 7:33 pm
espri
Member Since: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Tyrol, Austria
Posts: 387
Talking about diesel quality, I had a question - maybe Nickgriff knows the answer.
Since I bought the D3 last March, the fuel usage shown on the display stayed steady at 9.6 litres/100 km. Then, suddenly, while I was over in the UK at teh beginning of December, it went up to 10.1 litres/100 km and has stayed there since (apart from my holiday, I haven't changed my driving pattern). What I wondered was, is there anything like "winter diesel", which might explain the difference? Or must I look elsewhere for an explanation?
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