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Blue Oval
Member Since: 07 Sep 2010
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 20
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| An interesting question (to me anyway!) |
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OK, so I've done some digging around lately to research my (distant) future purchase of a 4X4. Obviously I've gathered that LR products are amongst the best in the world at tackling off road work.
What I don't understand is the physical reasons behind this. Why for example, is a Disco better off road than an X5. They both have 4 wheel drive, they both have relatively high ground clearance. So, what's the technical differences? Why couldn't I strap decent AT tyres to a "soft roader" like an X5, M-Class, Cherokee etc. and make it do more or less what a Disco will?
Just to clarify, I'm not trying to suggest that these cars are as capable as a Disco as if they were then people would take them off road more, I just want to know what technical features make a Disco better than other cars?
I'll throw open the floor to what I hope will be some interesting replies! 
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 22nd Sep 2010 12:12 am |
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disco4x4au
Member Since: 19 Jan 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 409
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Traditionally, LR products have had two main advantages over most other 4WD vehicles (with the exception of some of the Jeeps and one or two others) - suspension articulation and _real_ low-ratio gearing.
The former means more traction - you have more wheels on the ground for longer. The latter means more usable power to the ground. Together they make quite a difference. Most of the newer LR's also have a traction control system that really has to be experienced to be believed. Heads and shoulders above the competition.
You _could_ put AT tyres on an X5 and get a little further, but a D3/D4 on AT's would run rings around you. Probably still would on road tyres.
Cheers,
Gordon[/list] ex - 2006 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, with lots of stuff - R.I.P.
ex - 2009 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, had lots of stuff too!
Now - 2010 RRS 3.0 TDV6, rimini red, 18" rims + Cooper LTZ, rear eLocker, Spider tuning box, GOE protection plates and rock sliders, GOE 3way shortened rods.
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| 22nd Sep 2010 12:25 am |
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Blue Oval
Member Since: 07 Sep 2010
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 20
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Ah, never thought of the suspension! That makes sense!
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| 22nd Sep 2010 12:26 am |
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Roel
Member Since: 16 Aug 2008
Location: home
Posts: 1215
  
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You cannot put it as easy as this are the points the LR's are better. LR has off-road as a first priority, the disco 3 and RR etc can do more then most off the drivers will do with it.
LR designs a car that has to be top class off the road and on the road. BMW etc want to be top class on the road (where most people use it anyway) and then look how they can get that design to be good off-road.
The difference starts already at the drawing board. Roel
1997 Camel Trophy Disco ex-P101JWK (traded it for a Britains 42101)
1984 90 TD5
2005 G4 Disco 3 BN55WPT
Also member of club MTR
and Club Faultmate
Interested in my 4x4 history see my website: www.mudmachine.webklik.nl
Sorry it's in Dutch and with google translator it gets funny.
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| 22nd Sep 2010 1:44 am |
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Blue Oval
Member Since: 07 Sep 2010
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 20
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Yeah I figured that would come into it, it's just despite all my digging I've struggled to actually get my head around the physics involved in getting two tonnes of metal to shift vs. getting it stuck in a rut!
I think the suspension theory helped clear it up a little as I hadn't thought of it at all!
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| 22nd Sep 2010 8:28 pm |
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mapleleaf 123
Member Since: 17 Jun 2010
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 93
 
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As Roel said Land Rover start by designing an off road vehicle then make it perform better in other situations rather than the other way round as most manufacturers do. Why buy a car when you can buy a Land Rover.....because I'm worth it.
D3 TDV6 SE
Silver with black, privacy glass, side steps, parrott and powered iPhone holder.
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| 22nd Sep 2010 9:47 pm |
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darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2892
  
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The ultimate proof of what a Land Rover can do is to go to one of the Experience Centres, it will be the best money you have spent in a long while.
Worth talking to the local LR dealers as they sometimes have vouchers for free sessions and their own demo days
Also check on the LR website in the Experience section as they used to give some away every month. Must stop buying shiny toys....
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| 22nd Sep 2010 10:00 pm |
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MartinR
Member Since: 27 Jan 2008
Location: Oxon
Posts: 708
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As well as suspension, throw in the whole engine setup (tree-stump pulling torque at low revs over raw power at high revs), transmission (low, low gears to give you fine control over the rough stuff), diff setup and power delivery, possible wheel and tyre choice (see the criticism on here for the D4 not taking anything smaller than 19" rims!), clever electronics (terrain response, HDC)... the whole design approach is different
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| 22nd Sep 2010 10:53 pm |
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LeighW
D3 Decade
Member Since: 31 Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Posts: 920
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Another point to consider; the engine in the D3 has been designed to operate at extreme angles without oil loss at the pickup. This is crucial when climbing or descending at the angles the rest of the vehicle is designed for. It also has a high rollover angle (to the point where passengers feel very uncomfortable like the car is about to tip!).
I can't speak for the BMs, etc but another poster hit it on the head - they are designed to be road cars FIRST and off road second, whereas the D3 and D4 have the added luxury of very comfortable onroad manners as well as their offroad capabilities. LeighW
The old girl is on her third engine...
* first ran a bearing (design failure in original engine)
* second had a failure of the water outlet on top of the engine (pls check yours)
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| 23rd Sep 2010 1:01 am |
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rnlisg
Member Since: 07 Aug 2010
Location: kent
Posts: 209
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ref the l/r experience course,the wife and i have done 3, 2 in d3 1 in freelander 2,it is definitley worth it, a truly amazing time,especially the off road bit in the quarry,crazy angles deep mud rocks logs etc,wow.i would like to do the full day course(but all off road)
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| 23rd Sep 2010 3:12 pm |
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Blue Oval
Member Since: 07 Sep 2010
Location: Sunderland
Posts: 20
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Now the picture is getting even clearer, I'd never have thought of stuff like the engine oil pickup, it's just something that you assume will work!
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| 23rd Sep 2010 5:43 pm |
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DiscoDunc
Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390
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I had a Rover Sd1 V8 engine in my Defender - i didnt realise it was an SD1 engine until the engine crank became worn and started burning oil- seemed the oil just wasnt getting around the engine. so even a Rover V8 is different when designed for a LR. Duncan
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If I'd known I was going to be so thirsty this morning I'd have drunk more beer last night.
FFRR Autobiography 4.4 SDV8 MY17
D4 HSE MY13 SOLD
FFRR 3.6 Vogue TDV8 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
D4 SE TECH MY15 SOLD
D4 XS MY12 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
D3 HSE MY06 - Re-Cycled Worldwide
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| 23rd Sep 2010 5:47 pm |
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roveribis
Member Since: 04 Apr 2009
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 132
  
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I have both cars (and a Mercedes GL450). Totally different vehicles! The X5/GL450 is AWD to aid in traction (wet/snow/dirt) on roads, the D3 is a real off-road vehicle. The only off-road our X5 has seen is on unpaved dirt roads and sand (beach).
There are so many differences in the design/intent of the engineers, that are too many to mention......
I took the D3 with stock tires, off-road (for real) and I was SURPRISED! Amazing.... Now with AT or MT tires...  -------------------
2008 LR3
ARB bumper, winch, sealed Snorkle, dual battery, Rover Specialties sliders, whole car custom skid plates, 33" tires, ARB air compressor, CB radio, etc...
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| 23rd Sep 2010 6:33 pm |
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