Member Since: 02 Mar 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17
Air Spring Punctured by control arm??
About a week ago while on a trail I had my right front air spring get punctured. The upper control arm drooped low enough to rub on the aluminum housing around the spring and wear a hole. I have researched as best I can and I cannot find another occurence of this happening. It looks to me like the strut over extended and caused this problem. I have taken it all apart but I haven't ordered a new strut assembly yet, has anyone seen anything like this before? The control arm bushings were all replaced 6k miles ago, and there are no loose suspension componets.
Here are some pics
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
You can see in this pic were the cv boot has rubbed against the lower control arm aswell
Click image to enlarge
In this one you can see where the aluminum housing rubbed against the frame.
Click image to enlarge
Ryan - 05 V8SE with 58k miles on the clock
13th Jul 2010 6:52 pm
Bodsy Site Sponsor
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Have you used extended ride height rods at all?
Seems unusual (i.e. the first one i've heard of doing this) Seenothers where trees or steelrod has gone through it, but not what you describe. Maybe just unlucky, but I'd want to know if it's likely to do it again....Bodsys Brake Bible
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13th Jul 2010 7:01 pm
ryan-in-oregon
Member Since: 02 Mar 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17
Yes I have 8mm shorter rods installed. However maximum extension should be controled by the strut correct? I think as a safety measure I am going to add a limiting strap. It seems as if I am on three wheels frequently!!
Ryan
Last edited by ryan-in-oregon on 13th Jul 2010 7:54 pm. Edited 1 time in total
13th Jul 2010 7:13 pm
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That'll be it then.....
The strut will have more movement available to it as it it free to move generally. i.e. if you were to remove the hub knuckle, then the struts would have nothing to hold them in position and they will fall a lot further than you would normally see.
It IS one of the risks with shorter/longer rods and I'm glad that you posted your issue.
A check strap would help, but I'm not sure where you would fix it to TBH.
Ride height (and therefore extension) is controlled by the ride height sensors, which are thinking they are too high/short with your 8mm mods.Bodsys Brake Bible
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13th Jul 2010 7:20 pm
ryan-in-oregon
Member Since: 02 Mar 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17
Well, expensive risk it is then.....I am disapointed that the strut is allowed to extend to the point of contacting other suspenion componets. The strut itself is completely mechanical and shouldn't be able to extend that far in my opionion. Although I do understand how it would extend further with greater pressure in the air bladder. For the limiting strap I will have to weld some tabs on to the frame and lower a-arm.
Ryan
13th Jul 2010 7:30 pm
Bodsy Site Sponsor
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well if you can post up pics of what you end up doing, that would be swell Bodsys Brake Bible
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It can't just be dismissed though. It could be a combination of things, but that is not normal.
I would want to know what caused it before replacing the strut.
13th Jul 2010 8:30 pm
Bodsy Site Sponsor
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Come on chaps, let's get some reality in here..... My first thought when looking at the damage was overextension of the control arm, caused in part at least by shortened rods.
Turns out he does have shortened rods. Can't remember what lift 8mm gives.... (I'm sure someone will say shortly...)
If you go into extended mode whilst off road, you'll generally be 2-2-1/2" or more more than that with the rods.
So once in extended mode, you go into super extended, again add 2" or so above that and there is some real extremes of angles at that point.
It may be that the arm was knocked to the extreme edge of the bushes movement, which could have rubbed onto the suspension bag cover. I would suspect that this was caused by extreme angles in all areas, including the steering being locked over all the way.
It may be, that when you are lifting to the max, that you need to add a bolt to adjust the steering bump stops to avoid this.
It would then also perhaps avoid undue stress on the CV joint at those acute angles when fully locked.
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13th Jul 2010 8:40 pm
DG Site Moderator
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ryan-in-oregon wrote:
Well, expensive risk it is then.....I am disapointed that the strut is allowed to extend to the point of contacting other suspenion componets.
I take it that you are really saying you are disappointed that "man with magic growing rods" didn't tell you it might screw your motor, rather than the OEM set-up 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
13th Jul 2010 8:46 pm
ryan-in-oregon
Member Since: 02 Mar 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17
Steering angle has no effect on the clearances between the conrtol arm and sleeve. I personally refreshed the bushings 6 k miles ago and I just don't see how I could have done anything wrong (although it is a possiblity) The upper arm was replaced as a whole.
Regardless of what length rods are on, the strut should have a mechanical limit to prevent extension to the point of contacting other suspension componets. There is always a risk when modifying parts and that is a risk I accecpted when I started running the shortened rods. I just find it hard to believe I am the only one that has encountered this problem.
Ryan
13th Jul 2010 9:18 pm
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Ryan,
I think it's a combination of the shortened rods and the actual driving situation. People are still getting used to the idea od shortened rods, so I'm sure we'll see some more issues, but at the same time, we'll also see some more solutions to cure those issues as well
It's progress and without people like you that are willing to give it a go, we'd still have square wheels and live in caves Bodsys Brake Bible
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13th Jul 2010 9:24 pm
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
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CW and Bodsy, I'm not discarding it in completely, but I simply can't see the correlation at the moment
DG - I don't understand your message ?
Bodsy - shortening the rods by 8mm will give around a 35-40mm lift in height: 1.5" (ish).
Even with the D3 in extended mode with shortened rods, the control arms don't touch the air springs....I've even tried it calibrating my suspension to -50 all round with my 5mm shortened rods (probably equivalent to 12-15mm shortened rods) and then put it in off-road mode.....the suspension "tops" out very quickly and doesn't lift much more than it would anyway in "normal" super-extended.....again, the control arms don't go near the air springs.
Most people here have had their D3s on three (or two ) wheels many many times and I would bet that none of us have got wear/rub marks on the air spring housing.
The steering should have no effect on the geometry of the control arms. Shortening the rods will have all effect on the articulation of the suspension. Once it reaches it's stop, it reaches it - changing the height rods does not, and cannot affect this or give the suspension any more articulation - once the wheel is hanging, the stop is mechanical (although not entirely sure if it is due to the shock absorber or air spring "maxxing out"). You don't need limit straps on the D3 as the spring (air spring in this case) is not capable of being separated from either its' top or bottom fixing point.
If you look carefully at the photos, you can see severe rubbing and wear - not just an occasional contact - it's been happening an awful lot. The fact that the OP hasn't mentioned the same thing occuring on the other side makes it seem that the problem is localised to just one side....let's remember that he would have installed the same height rods on both sides.
People over here have been using shortened rods for a couple of years including lots of trail stuff and plenty of trips to the desert - some people have had issues with out of range values being given when 10mm shortened rods are used, but never with 5mm or 7mm shortened rods. We've never been able to attribute any mechanical failure as being due to rods.
Seriously - I can't see how the height rods could have caused this issue. 10mm is a lot, but not that much - what has happened here isn't normal.......2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
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) wheels many many times and I would bet that none of us have got wear/rub marks on the air spring housing.
all effect on the articulation of the suspension. Once it reaches it's stop, it reaches it - changing the height rods does not, and cannot affect this or give the suspension any more articulation - once the wheel is hanging, the stop is mechanical (although not entirely sure if it is due to the shock absorber or air spring "maxxing out"). You don't need limit straps on the D3 as the spring (air spring in this case) is not capable of being separated from either its' top or bottom fixing point.
