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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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PaulP wrote:
DG - I don't understand your message ? 
Ahhh just my usual doom and gloom "don't feck with it" message  I'll go back to my cave  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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 13th Jul 2010 9:42 pm |
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Bodsy
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Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
  
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mmmmm Maybe if the top arm wasn't calibrated fully when installed or it was installed and set at the extreme end of it's position....? just musing really....  Bodsys Brake Bible
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| 13th Jul 2010 9:46 pm |
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PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
 
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DG wrote:Ahhh just my usual doom and gloom "don't feck with it" message
Although I use shortened rods and think that they are great for off-road stuff, I'll be the first to say that they royally  up the generally excellent handling of the D3 when on-road and on the twisty stuff - roundabouts, bends and corners in general - the handling is notably better when you have standard rods installed and the suspension calibrated as it should be
That's why the Matzker (other adjustable systems are available ) is so good - it really gives you the best of both worlds. (I just wish I could afford it  ) 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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| 13th Jul 2010 9:59 pm |
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ryan-in-oregon
Member Since: 02 Mar 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17
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Quote:If you look carefully at the photos, you can see severe rubbing and wear - not just an occasional contact - it's been happening an awful lot. The fact that the OP hasn't mentioned the same thing occuring on the other side makes it seem that the problem is localised to just one side....let's remember that he would have installed the same height rods on both sides.
.......
This is actually occuring on both sides!!!! The Left side is nowhere near as close though. But there are nicks in sleave from the a-arm contacting it!!
Ryan
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| 13th Jul 2010 10:00 pm |
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ryan-in-oregon
Member Since: 02 Mar 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17
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Bodsy wrote:mmmmm Maybe if the top arm wasn't calibrated fully when installed or it was installed and set at the extreme end of it's position....? just musing really....
I took it into the local stealer for a proper alignment once I compleated the bushing replacement so this shouldn't be an issue...
Ryan
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| 13th Jul 2010 10:03 pm |
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PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
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ryan-in-oregon wrote:This is actually occuring on both sides!!!!
Well that's my theory up then
Just out of interest Ryan - when did you install the shortened rods?
Was it before you changed the control arms and bushes etc 6K miles ago? If so, did you notice any rubbing or marks on the air springs when you changed the bits over? 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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| 13th Jul 2010 10:04 pm |
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ryan-in-oregon
Member Since: 02 Mar 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17
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Rods have been on for about a year maybe a year and a half. At the time of the bushing replacement(Last October) I didn't notice any rubbing on the sleave. But if it was like it is on the left side I wouldn't have seen it as I had to look for it!
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| 13th Jul 2010 10:32 pm |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
  
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Not right. Are you sure when the bushes were changed they were rotated to the correct position. (Old position marked and then matched to new) Mine failed a short while after dealer replaced, witha lot of movement. I think they cocked up the install (replaced under extended warranty anyway) I think something would have to be in the wrong position for a while to cause that. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 14th Jul 2010 2:04 am |
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ryan-in-oregon
Member Since: 02 Mar 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17
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caverD3 wrote:Not right. Are you sure when the bushes were changed they were rotated to the correct position. (Old position marked and then matched to new) Mine failed a short while after dealer replaced, witha lot of movement. I think they cocked up the install (replaced under extended warranty anyway) I think something would have to be in the wrong position for a while to cause that.
Yes I marked the arms of the bushing orientation and put them back the same way. I was actually so anal about marking everything that the steering was dead on after I did everything and it tracked straight too!! Ryan - W7HUN
05 V8SE 265/65R18 BFG AT, 28gallon Aux Fuel tank, Custom Fab rear bumper with wrap around protection and integrated swing-away tire carrier, Custom Rock Sliders, Toughbook mount w/cf-28, OnBoard Air
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| 14th Jul 2010 2:50 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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Weird 
Unless someone with extended rods finds marks on theirs in similar spots then look for another cause for the geometry to be out.  “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 14th Jul 2010 2:59 am |
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PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
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I put mine in off-road height this morning when I arrived at the office, turned the wheels to one side and had a very good look - no signs of rubbing at all on any of the parts. I then turned the wheel to the other side and checked again - nothing on that side either.
For comparison I have 5mm shortened rods and also usually run the calibration at an offset of -25 all around (± +10mm) - this means my total lift would be around 35mm in total.
I've also done a lot of heavy off-roading and obstacles in this configuration over the last 6 months (lots of cross axle stuff and one wheel at full articulation) and not even a rub mark anywhere....
I've just looked at your photos again and that is some serious wear/damage.  2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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| 14th Jul 2010 8:16 am |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26699
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Here is another theory!
When you took it to the dealer for realignment after you replaced the bushes, did it have the shortened rods on, or did you temp refit the standard rods?
To do the job properly, the car has to be put into "alignment" mode, which I would think would be highly dependant on standard settings, to achieve the correct tolerance.
Its not had any accidents in its life has it?
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| 14th Jul 2010 8:34 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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I still think it is related to the geometry of the conrol arms. Which bushes were replaced upper or lower or both?
It looks like the air spring unit has been able to move horizontally too much and hit the back of the bracket. (and the upper control arm) and vertically so the CV boot has rubbed. The CV bbot rubbing looks like this has happened at speed not just when articulated fully down in slow off road manouvers. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 14th Jul 2010 8:44 am |
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PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
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Wot he said ^^^^ It definitely looks like there has been excessive freeplay or movement where there should be none. 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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| 14th Jul 2010 8:53 am |
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ryan-in-oregon
Member Since: 02 Mar 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17
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Gareth wrote:Here is another theory!
When you took it to the dealer for realignment after you replaced the bushes, did it have the shortened rods on, or did you temp refit the standard rods?
To do the job properly, the car has to be put into "alignment" mode, which I would think would be highly dependant on standard settings, to achieve the correct tolerance.
Its not had any accidents in its life has it?
I kept the rods on as I leave them on all the time anyway. The alignment should be done in the mode it is in most often. The dealer was supposed to use the computer to put it in "tight tolerance" mode for the alignment. If my understanding is correct all this does is tighten up the tolerances on the sensors to keep the rig at a more consistant height during the alignment.
There is evidence that the fender on that side has been repainted but I believe it is the orginal fender (I think it was painted to blend in repairs elsewear). The hood has been replaced but I believe it was in a hail storm as the rest of the parts are original and there are many tiny dents in the roof that aren't covered by glass.
caverD3 wrote:I still think it is related to the geometry of the conrol arms. Which bushes were replaced upper or lower or both?
It looks like the air spring unit has been able to move horizontally too much and hit the back of the bracket. (and the upper control arm) and vertically so the CV boot has rubbed. The CV bbot rubbing looks like this has happened at speed not just when articulated fully down in slow off road manouvers
All bushings are fresh, balljoints were tight then and tight now so I left them alone. It you look at the sleave on the air spring it is attached to rubber at near the top so there is some lateral movemant allowed here. Looking at the contact point in the air spring it is only contacting at full extension, if it were contact higher on the spring housing I would agree with you on play somewhere in the suspension. Same goes with the CV boot there is a lot of clearance until you get to full extension so I do not believe this could have rubbed anywhere but full extension. Once I get the new air spring on I am going to do some articulation tests to prove this. I have heard no clunks nor rattles since I replaced the bushes (which is why I changed them). My opinion is they are still too soft anyway and I should have gone the poly route when I replaced them. I will go to poly for sure at the next replacement. Ryan - W7HUN
05 V8SE 265/65R18 BFG AT, 28gallon Aux Fuel tank, Custom Fab rear bumper with wrap around protection and integrated swing-away tire carrier, Custom Rock Sliders, Toughbook mount w/cf-28, OnBoard Air
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| 14th Jul 2010 2:45 pm |
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