Read this to the end, there is a happy ending.........
VIN: SALLAAAG3BA__________
L319 - Discovery 4 2011
Vehicle scanned on 18-07-2022 16:12
Using IIDTool BT V4.0 B2803
PCM-Engine Diesel 3.0L
P006A-00 (27) Manifold absolute pressure - mass or volume air flow correlation
( on 18-07-2022 15:15:25 at 123168 mi )
P1247-00 (27) Turbocharger boost pressure low
( on 18-07-2022 15:24:19 at 123175 mi )
So this is basically saying I'm stuffed!
The lovely LR sensors in the engine which are trying to squeeze every drop of potential energy out of the diesel have spotted that the figures don't add up. Accountants rule!
The engine has rightly reported that the amount of air going past the MAF sensors after the air filter, isn't getting out of the exhaust so must be leaking out somewhere.
There is a LR bulletin which lists a huge number of reasons why these faults are front and centre, but we all know it’s not going to be a cheap fix like an o ring leaking!
I don't use the truck that often, so just used the GAP IID tool to reset the fault every time it went off. I managed it for 3 months then got bored with constantly resetting it and I also noted the fuel consumption was higher.
First, I changed the MAF sensors (after the air filter) both faults still happened. ££ spent
Then I took off the throttle body and cleaned out the black goo which it was covered in (black goo is a combination of oil and diesel and exhaust carbon which means trouble). This improved the situation a bit, so the faults only happened when I stuck my boot down or went over 65 mph.
I then ordered a smoke machine on amazon late one night in frustration and it arrived the next day. ££ spent
I hooked the smoke machine up to the throttle body intake and let it rip.
Big leak from the RH intake manifold. So this is the piece of black plastic that sits on top of the cam shafts and not only covers and seals the head, but it also feeds the pressurised air from the turbo into the cylinders. It's quite a piece of engineering, just a shame LR didn't make it, so it lasted a bit longer. One thing I regret was that I didn't try re-torquing the inlet manifold down (there are only some of the bolts that you can get access to without removing parts) to see if this improved or eliminated the fault. For sure, if the manifold is split then it needs to be changed.
There is a procedure in the Disco 3 store which explains how to replace the inlet manifold but it’s not perfect. The images shown in the procedure are from a 3D CAD model, so parts which are blocking the view/explanation, are removed from the picture. This can make it confusing when comparing your engine with the pictures but fine once you know why.
Step 21 - There is a bolt which goes though the EGR valve and the fuel rail bracket. You need to remove it, or the bracket will not come out. To get the front fuel rail bracket bolt out, you need to remove the EGR motor (4 torque screws), if you don't, you can't remove the front bolt. These 3 bolts will take over an hour to remove on a good day!
Other comments that will help you other than pay somebody to do it for you. £1200 ish for one or £1900 for both.
Put some expanded foam or rags down where the EGR valve is. This will then catch the bolts or spanners when you drop them down the gap and trust me they don't fall out the bottom even with the lower covers removed. Be really precise what you have stuffed in as it gets very hot down there and you wouldn't want to leave it in there. It is a job you can do on the drive, stick it in access height and disconnect the battery. You will need to remove the front grill (at 20 secs, this is the fastest job you will do) and means you can kneel on the chassis for hours when you are trying to get the EGR cooler pipe undone at the back of the engine under the body.
The NVH inner cover is the first thing you fit after torquing down the inlet manifold bolts. Don't fit the injector pipes or the leak off injector pipes or the ERG cooling hose/pipe till you have fitted the outer NVH cover.
Take pictures before and after you remove anything and write down what you did. Mark the connectors for what they are, just reduces your stress level.
The plastic pipe with the black netting on it (LR013531 £30.68 plus vat) that links the inlet manifolds to the central crank case oil separator block will break. I'm sure you could do the same job for next to nothing if you visit the local aquarium shop.
I paid £180 for the replacement parts, and it took me 5 days. It's really hard to get at all the bolts down the side and back. Next time I think I could do it in 3 days!
If I was doing it for a living, I think I would say.........well your car is over 10 years old and over 100k miles. It's a lot easier to take the body off, why don't we do all the timing belts, change the turbos and EGR valves and do both inlet manifold. ££££££££
Imagine that and the next week the crank fails!
I finished the work last weekend, and the car is back to what it should be. I re-smoked the throttle body during assembly, and it was clear. Driving shows no faults, and the fuel consumption is lower. This is handy as the car is taking me and 4 blokes to Scotland tomorrow for a 1000-mile trip and we don't have a backup plan.
Today, I'm going to try and find where the old inlet manifold was leaking by screwing it onto a piece of wood and smoking it. As you can see from the picture, it seemed to be coming from the outer seal, but I'd really like to find a crack/split.
Oh and I changed to 5W40 C3 and of course it’s much quieter and runs better, blah blah blah. I've now got 20 lts of 5W30 to use on something else. For a 120k mile + car you really need thicker oil - LR Time on YouTube will explain much better than me why.
If anybody wants to borrow some used MAF sensors (to eliminate them) or use the smoke machine, I'm in the Stafford (UK) area. If you are going to do it, watch LR Time as Christian and Vera are working on a friends LR4, and he has the same goo in the throttle body. Their videos are also really entertaining, and Christian has a wicked sense of humour.
https://f01.justanswer.com/crzydrvr00/b4ce..._P1247.pdf
This is the TB on ...... If the boost pressure cannot achieve the requested threshold (boost pressure set point) for a pre-defined period of time, then a P1247-00 code will be raised and the vehicle will be put into restricted performance.[/url]
16th Nov 2022 12:24 pm
Discofixer2
Member Since: 05 Nov 2022
Location: Stafford
Posts: 13
A little update.
The car made it to Islay and back. Around 900 miles.
Drove like it should with 5 of us on board.
Checked the fuel consumption twice on route and the on board system is 4 mpg better than reality. Fancy that Land Rover. !
Interesting that 119 people have looked at this post but everyone was too shy to respond.
Well you know what they say, use it or loose it.
At 80 years old I don't think I'll attempt it though - just keep my fingers crossed.
NJSS
26th Nov 2022 10:41 am
Discofixer2
Member Since: 05 Nov 2022
Location: Stafford
Posts: 13
Hey Njss
Your never too old to fix a Land Rover. !
Especially if you have one as it’s likely to go wrong anyway.
I do understand why the old defender and pre defender and disco 2 and earlier are popular. Relative to LR3/4 and RRS etc, they are so easy to fix and more reliable.
Cheers.
27th Nov 2022 7:30 pm
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2863
Must stop buying shiny toys....
20th Jun 2023 6:50 pm
sheddist
Member Since: 28 Jan 2019
Location: Telford
Posts: 12
Recently had cracked RH manifold, built on LR time "field fix"
Plastic welded the crack
Rubbed down the surfaces, then used JB weld plastic as a "primer" then applied carbon fibre woven mat and more epoxy to reinforce the area. Just done a couple of well loaded 200mile+ with no problem. How long will it last???
26th Jun 2023 9:42 am
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2863
Quote:
Recently had cracked RH manifold, built on LR time "field fix"
Plastic welded the crack
Rubbed down the surfaces, then used JB weld plastic as a "primer" then applied carbon fibre woven mat and more epoxy to reinforce the area. Just done a couple of well loaded 200mile+ with no problem. How long will it last???
I had considered doing this with my 2013 D4 when the right side inlet split just before Christmas. But having experienced a small engine fire on my D3 when an EGR valve failed (stuck open) I considered what the insurance company would say if there was an issue with the car in the future after the fix the potential for an assessor to refuse a claim was far too great in my opinion. So went down the line of replacing the RH manifold with a genuine one, ideally I wanted to do both but the LH genuine one was out of stock and on backorder at the time so had to do the one I needed. Ironically 6 months later the Left side has split so i was back in there again to fit the second one - that one is more of a pain as the front Timing cover needs to come off to access the front bolts. LH Inlet is replaced and injectors and all fuel system is back on just got to button everything up and refill the coolant and get everything bled. Fingers crossed should be done today if i get some time on it.Must stop buying shiny toys....
26th Jun 2023 11:13 am
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2863
Given the old gal a run out today after finishing up the inlet swap last night - had a quick run to test it last night and get the coolant flowing properly.
150 mile round trip and never skipped a beat Must stop buying shiny toys....
27th Jun 2023 8:44 pm
Carl and Petra
Member Since: 13 Feb 2015
Location: Hautes Pyrenees
Posts: 204
Just read this after having the same code pop up after the joy of the restricted performance light.
Nice to have a bit of a clue where to look.
Fun times coming up i think
Thank you for posting your experience of this. I will do the same as i get on with it.
6th Oct 2023 12:57 pm
Trickysummer
Member Since: 23 May 2016
Location: Maidenhead
Posts: 9
I had the restricted performance error on a 4 hour drive recently, speed dropped to max 50mph on the motorway. Fault cleared after a short stop, but then soon returned. Same happened each few days when under hard acceleration and constantly when towing. Having read many owners fault finding challenges, smoke tests etc. i thought I’d take it to my local specialist, they took a 2 minute look under the engine cover and immediately found the right inlet manifold cracked. New part ordered and 6 hours work by the mechanics sorted the problem. They said it was a horrible job and some of the bolts sheared off, and were stud extracted luckily as part of the job. They told me it was not more efficient to do both manifolds at the same time, so I just did the right one for now….
I’m generally happy to tackle work on the car, but glad I didn’t try this, sheared bolts would stress me out and turn it in to a nightmare job for me. So, I hate that this just cost me £650 for what I see as a manufacturing defect! Now I have to decide whether to pay a similar figure to fix the broken oil level sensor!!
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