Member Since: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Whitstable
Posts: 1433
Ban 4x4s from cities
Just had an email from Change.org trying to start up a campaign to ban 4x4s and all large vehicles from cities. Bit of pitiful writing linking 4x4s to the tragic death of 2 young children at the Wimbledon nursery.
Most cars would have gone through the wooden fence protecting the garden if out of control. No doubt there will now be another campaign to damage all 4x4s probably anywhere. All getting a bit tiresome….6 LRs last one 2009 HSE D3.
Current D5 HSE LUX 2019.
28th Aug 2023 3:59 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13538
Lots of non-SUVs are also 4wd these days, especially EVs. I wonder if they want them banned too or just the big boxes that they recognise. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
28th Aug 2023 4:29 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73075
Are they going to ban bin lorries after the driver of one killed 6 (?) people in Glasgow a few years ago?
28th Aug 2023 5:25 pm
terryall
Member Since: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Whitstable
Posts: 1433
Here is the text of the email from Change.org
Last month, two school children in Wimbledon died when a heavy 4x4 crashed through a fence and into an end- of- term primary school tea party. This is a devastating tragedy, but what chance did two small children have against a virtual tank?
I was appalled by this incident, and by the unique danger that 4x4s and heavy cars pose in an urban setting. There is only one 4x4 model currently on the market that scores higher than one star out of five for pedestrian safety in Euro-NCAP crash tests.
The weight of these cars, as tragically evidenced by last week’s incident, makes them virtual tanks - but their bonnet height and blindspots mean they pose a risk to pedestrians, small children and cyclists even when drivers remain in control at the wheel.
4x4s and other heavy cars also pollute, and damage road infrastructure, much more than other vehicles. The Range Rover Vogue, one of the bigger models, emits more carbon dioxide than two estate cars. Coroners have already attributed the death of Ella Kissi-Debrah, a 9 year old child, to the effects of pollution; if 4x4s remain on the roads she will not be the last.
Some people, particularly in rural areas, may need 4x4s or heavy cars to go about their daily business, but they are not a necessity in built up areas, and they are often just a status symbol6 LRs last one 2009 HSE D3.
Current D5 HSE LUX 2019.
28th Aug 2023 6:00 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13538
Euro-NCAP doesn't give star-scores for pedestrian safety. They give a percentage score based on points awarded for various categories being assessed.
Also, being crushed between a vehicle and a building or other obstruction isn't going to be a healthy place for a small child to be irrespective of what vehicle is involved.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
28th Aug 2023 6:13 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8223
DSL wrote:
Are they going to ban bin lorries after the driver of one killed 6 (?) people in Glasgow a few years ago?
and women drivers?- it was a woman driving the 4x4 at the Wimbledon incident.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
28th Aug 2023 6:28 pm
D&G
Member Since: 29 Jun 2017
Location: Charente 16480
Posts: 3483
An honorable defeat is better than a dishonorable victory.” ― Millard Fillmore
2006 Disco 3
Gas Gas 300ec / Gas Gas tx249 / Bandit 1250
XR 650r / Pajero 2.8 Lifted and Safari Snorkel-gone.
28th Aug 2023 7:35 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73075
I’m not saying anything, purely by reason of self preservation.
28th Aug 2023 8:28 pm
Brian Considine
Member Since: 05 Dec 2022
Location: Nr Margate
Posts: 280
RR's are heavy - there is no disputing that. However, many medium sized EV's are also pretty heavy.
Regarding the "Bin Lorry Incident" what I don't understand is that they have emergency engine stops in the cab & by the rear hopper, all accessable to the crew (loaders), why one of these was not activated only the crew know.
The higher seating height of 4x4s affords the drive greater visibility.
The sad truth probably is that the person who started the campaign probably has some Marxist agenda against people who they perceive as wealthy. They might have started-off wealthy but after six months of owning a Land Rover...
2015 Volvo V40
2014 D4 HSE
2006 RRS - C'est mort. Fin... ...It's alive! Oh no, it's not - scrapped.
2019 Suzuki Kingquad 400
2017 RamRod Taskmaster 1150
1977 John Deere 2130
29th Aug 2023 7:33 am
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73075
Like the old saying.
How do you end up with a small fortune running a LR?
Start with a large fortune!!
29th Aug 2023 7:36 am
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2889
So if they are banning based on weight or on design?
A D4 weighs the same roughly as a Tesla, the defender involved in the accident they are talking about weighs less than a Tesla...
Perhaps they need to discuss the true narrative here, they don't want anyone to have what they don't like, and in this case they don't like people with existing vehicles and would prefer to create more damage to the environment by removing them....Must stop buying shiny toys....
29th Aug 2023 8:20 am
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13538
Part of me can understand the view that 4x4s aren't really necessary/suitable vehicles for congested urban environments. But then another part of me thinks "well, people get to spend their money how they see fit and if they choose to waste it on a big SUV to drive at 5mph in traffic, that's up to them". And I also know that if you're in a large SUV and everyone else is in cars, you can see much better what is going on around you. Doesn't help so much if everyone else is in big SUVs, of course.
It's interesting to note that the person writing the petition recognised that there are people that might have a genuine need for such a vehicle in non-urban environments, so I'm not sure it's a full-on Marxist agenda against all 4x4 because they're "posh".Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
29th Aug 2023 8:22 am
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13538
darrind wrote:
So if they are banning based on weight or on design?
A D4 weighs the same roughly as a Tesla, the defender involved in the accident they are talking about weighs less than a Tesla...
Perhaps they need to discuss the true narrative here, they don't want anyone to have what they don't like, and in this case they don't like people with existing vehicles and would prefer to create more damage to the environment by removing them....
They do say "the unique danger that 4x4s and heavy cars pose in an urban setting" so it's heavy cars as well as 4x4s.
This one actually reads as if someone has given it some thought and is wanting to deal with a particular issue rather than a simple "I hate X and want all Xs banned!" approach. May be that's just clever marketing on their part, or maybe they do think there is a genuine issue.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
29th Aug 2023 8:24 am
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73075
It’s the old “ban 4x4s, they’re killing the planet” carp. My 4x4 gets almost 60mpg and is EURO6 so polar bears and Kahn friendly. I can think of a good few reasons to have 4x4 but how about high performance cars like Porsches, Fezzas and Lambos, other sports cars are available? The only reason I can think of for having those is for driving enjoyment. Their impact on Da Planet is a lot higher than my little 4x4 and they get off Scott free from the grief that is thrown our way!
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