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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13606
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| Banks, electricity companies, now water... |
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Quote:Thames Water is in talks to secure extra funding as the government says it is ready to act in a worst case scenario if the company collapses.
Quote:The water firm, which serves a quarter of the UK population, has billions in debt and is under pressure with its boss resigning unexpectedly on Tuesday.
Billions in debt? How?
Quote:The company added that water regulator Ofwat was "being kept fully informed" on progress, and said it had "strong" reserves including £4.4bn of cash.
Er, so how much debt are they in if they have £4.4bn in cash?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66039170
So another example of privatising profit, nationalising risk. The taxpayer is likely going to have to bail them out.
Time to accept that the idea that national assets should be owned and controlled by private companies - most of whom are foreign companies - has died. Let's have the core services owned by the nation. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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 28th Jun 2023 2:17 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
 
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Kemble Water Finance Ltd, the financing arm of Thames Water, is currently carrying £21,703,500,000 in debt.
A complete lack of regulation, by successive governments is to blame.  2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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| 28th Jun 2023 2:37 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13606
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So where has that big pile debt come from? And how much of it has been used to pay dividends to the owners (if not the shareholders who, it seems, haven't seen much return in the last few years even though the company has voted itself an internal dividend).
Oh, and has been paying the CEO up to £2m / year. She did refuse her half million performance bonus for last year having taken it the year before. So she'll be financially ok then.
Yes, lack of regulation means that the tax payer is going to be footing a huge bill. Again.
Time to change the system.
Anyway, if Kemble Water Finance Ltd are struggling, that's their problem. They're a separate limited company. Just take over the actual delivery bit of Thames Water and let the rest of them founder in the mire of their own making. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 28th Jun 2023 3:30 pm |
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nigethecat
Member Since: 11 Sep 2016
Location: Marnoch
Posts: 4252
 
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Smells like fraud to me...
Quote:Australian bank Macquarie which bought Thames Water in 2006, left it with £2bn extra debt after it sold its last share in 2017.
The £2bn was borrowed by Thames Water in 2007 and 2010 but used for the benefit of the bank and its investors, which owned and controlled the UK's biggest privatised water company.
The transactions which culminated in Thames Water having the additional £2bn of debt on its books took place inside a network of companies set up by Macquarie at the time it bought Thames Water.
I want to see the sweets before I get into your windowless van... I'm not stupid!
Corris Grey D4 Commercial SE 2016
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| 28th Jun 2023 3:42 pm |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14482
 
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Gas, electricity, water and rail should all be nationally owned.
The fact that our water bills are going to go up to pay for investment in sewage stems etc really  me off. Stop rewarding the share holders and start investing in infrastructure!  D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
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| 28th Jun 2023 7:50 pm |
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kajtzu
Member Since: 10 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6769
 
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nigethecat wrote:Smells like fraud to me...
Quote:Australian bank Macquarie which bought Thames Water in 2006, left it with £2bn extra debt after it sold its last share in 2017.
The £2bn was borrowed by Thames Water in 2007 and 2010 but used for the benefit of the bank and its investors, which owned and controlled the UK's biggest privatised water company.
The transactions which culminated in Thames Water having the additional £2bn of debt on its books took place inside a network of companies set up by Macquarie at the time it bought Thames Water.
No, it’s a great example of the Private Equity playbook or “how to acquire something from retards, load it up with debt, enrich the owners (the PE company) and leave a mess to be cleaned up”. Thames is nowhere near the first nor will it be the last. The playbook works just as well on privatized companies as on spin outs, as on LBOs, etc.
If you want to look at the capital structure, see https://on.ft.com/3CRdZRK. You do not need to be a FT subscriber but it will ask you to register to read Alphaville (the best articles  ).
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| 28th Jun 2023 8:07 pm |
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HairyFool
Member Since: 04 Jan 2023
Location: North Essex
Posts: 704
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When I worked for NCR it was bought out by AT&T as quite a profitable business as a whole.
After 4 years it had managed to reorganise it into a loss then sold it off but keeping the computer business arm which is the only reason they bought it in the 1st place.
High finance and football club ownership seems to be filled with private equity firms shuffling aquisitions from one entity to another, each time creaming off a few million here and there in the form of bonuses and golden handshakes. A visitor from the dark side, my other vehicle is an is still an EV. Strictly speaking its SWMBO.
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| 29th Jun 2023 7:10 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13606
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Half of the economy appears to one glorified legal Ponzi scheme. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 29th Jun 2023 8:59 pm |
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Oxford-boy
Member Since: 07 Sep 2015
Location: Oxford
Posts: 1122
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Having watched Ben Elton fronting a recent (excellent) programme on the state of the Railways on Channel 4 add 'Railways' to that list... as if we didn't know that... Jim
2014 Discovery 4 XXV SDV6 Causeway Grey
2016 Discovery 4 HSE Lux SDV6 Loire Blue - now gone
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| 29th Jun 2023 10:09 pm |
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Trailered Movements
Member Since: 16 Jan 2020
Location: East/West Sussex Coast Borders
Posts: 1200
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All utilities, and public transport should be under state control, however, when this was the case, they all were run under the management of inept clowns, with no concept of accountability.
Only when 'profits' had to be considered (by private companies), did prolific waste reduce.
When British Rail was eventually broken up, I seem to recall there was many thousands being paid who either had never worked for them, or had died.
Corruption is rife in public departments as there is little in the way of accountability, and when the Trade Unions get a hold, the system goes to pot and we all suffer whilst the union fat cats get fatter.
Unfortunately the answer lies somewhere in the middle, and I for one don't see the appetite for honesty and common sense from government of any persuasion.
Dave 2011 Discovery 4 Commercial SDV6 (Gone)
2010 RRS TDV8 (Gone)
1980 OBLIC 4.0ltr Range Rover (went a long time ago)
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| 30th Jun 2023 8:10 am |
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Oxford-boy
Member Since: 07 Sep 2015
Location: Oxford
Posts: 1122
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Have a watch of Ben Elton's Channel 4 programme from a few days ago.
The views of the experts about British Rail may surprise you.
What you throw away etc...
It's quite good and again, rather depressing for the future of the railways.
God knows how the north has put up with it there. Quite scandalous to realise that HS2 has stripped the network of much investment... Jim
2014 Discovery 4 XXV SDV6 Causeway Grey
2016 Discovery 4 HSE Lux SDV6 Loire Blue - now gone
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| 30th Jun 2023 8:50 am |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13606
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One benefit of a nationalised set up e.g. gas, is that the gas company has big buying power so should be able to get stuff cheaper than you or I can source it as individuals. There is an example of this with the NHS - it's one of the largest buyers of medicines in the world and so is able to secure much better prices than, for example, US health care providers, even though the drug companies are often US ones.
Of course, there are downsides too. But these are pretty much well known and so can be designed out of any new setup. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 30th Jun 2023 10:07 am |
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sasdiscos
Member Since: 22 Feb 2013
Location: Northants
Posts: 889
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Problem is, the issues won’t be designed out.
Government is just as corrupt and incompetent as private firms are greedy and ruthless.
Steve. You remind me of a younger me, not much younger mind...perhaps even a little older!
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| 1st Jul 2023 8:25 am |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14482
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GDF / EDF the French national gas and electricity companies, whilst not perfect seem to do OK. They own a few of our energy providers and are even building us a nuclear power station. When we had our French home they had some really good and clever tariffs and were always good to deal with.
SNCF, the French rail system seems to be pretty good as well. I find it really easy to use, fast, efficient and reliable. Same applies to Deutsche Bahn in Germany.
At the moment the UK has no joined up strategic energy policy, infrastructure policy and exposed to the aims and greed of the Private Equity and hedging mob. When they take their wedge and things collapse its us the tax payer that picks up the tab.
You'd think that Covid and the Ukrainian war would have made us rethink our strategic road map to ensure security of supply for food, energy, manufacturing, medicines etc. Sadly we have short term memories.
There are strategic services and infrastructure the State should supply, after all, we pay for it in subsidies in many sectors anyway.  D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
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| 1st Jul 2023 9:15 am |
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