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away
Member Since: 18 Nov 2006
Location: Cossack
Posts: 111
  
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| An Australian first, or so I'm told.... |
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Well, here we are at Alice Springs for the second time in a year. It's been hot during the day here, especially over Easter. Unfortunately we couldn't go anywhere because our airconditioner failed on the eve of Good Friday.
We had the car checked by the dealer a couple of days before that because we could smell something like LPG gas coming from the front of the vehicle for a few days prior. My research on the Internet indicated that odorant is often used in conjunction with R134a refrigerant gas so as to alert you to leaks.
Anyway, the dealer couldn't find anything wrong with it and two days later it failed.
After Easter we took the car back to the dealer and he found that the aircon compressor had completely collapsed internally.....a first so far as he is aware!
It seems the part should be here this week and we'll finally be able to start exploring around The Alice. NT does not stand for Northern Territory, it stands for Not Today, Not Tomorrow, Not Tuesday, Not Thursday, Not by Truck and Not by Train if you are waiting for parts.
Anyway folks, if you get a smell like Autogas coming from under your bonnet, have it checked immediately.
Cheers,
Russ. D4: Expedition Rack, 104 Litre Long Range Tank, Raised Air Intake
D3: Every bloomin' thing but the kitchen sink
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 6th Apr 2008 7:10 am |
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drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
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| Re: An Australian first, or so I'm told.... |
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away wrote:NT does not stand for Northern Territory, it stands for Not Today, Not Tomorrow, Not Tuesday, Not Thursday, Not by Truck and Not by Train if you are waiting for parts.
Very funny but the Territorians may not be impressed, but none the less, still very funny.
Hope your problems are solved soon, very soon.
Cheers 2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
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| 6th Apr 2008 9:55 am |
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ianv
Member Since: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Bungendore, New South Wales
Posts: 338
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That smell is gas, the gas component of the refrigerant is ordinary old LP gas, it becomes refrigerant when the lubricant is added. Keep a close eye if you are in the workshop, do they have a lot of BBQ or are those cylinders there for another sinsiter reason. I only worked this one out a short while ago myself. TDV6
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| 6th Apr 2008 10:14 am |
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WayneD
Member Since: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Sydney Darwin ,Singapore, USA, UK and now country NSW
Posts: 531
 
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Doesn't just happen to Disco's. Had the wifes' Audi in for a service last week and asked the dealer to check rattle in the dash. Seems it was the air con. Drove it out after service and the air con packed it in. Car has just 6000k and the new parts "are on order". Seems to be a common problem, but no recall. At least I have a real car to drive in the mean time>  Take the road less traveled. Dual battery system.ORS drawers,LR cargo Barrier.ARB Bull bar,side protection bars,Mickey Thompson ATR's 17" rims, Rear wheel carrier, radiator guard TPMS Mitchell Bros Tow Hitch LR RAI Steel Rims , GME UHF, Off Road GPS, Llams (yet to be fitted)
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| 7th Apr 2008 1:05 am |
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wopac5
Member Since: 20 May 2007
Location: Karratha
Posts: 146
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Ianv
It might smell like a gas, but it is definitely NOT LP gas. LPG will work, as is exibits similar properties, but is made up of propane C3H8, which, as you point out, is inflammable, and illegal for use in this application in Australia.
See the link attached for the actual gas (refrigerant) used.
http://www.kangmei.com/r%20134a.htm?gclid=...ggodTi8Obg
Although containing hydrogen and carbon, the chemical structure makes it non-flammable.
Below is an extract from the MSDS for R134a
Specific Hazards
Extinguishing Media In case of fire in close proximity, all means of extinguishing are acceptable.
Specific Hazards
Non-flammable
Formation of dangerous gas/vapours in case of decomposition.
Gas/vapours combustion posible in presence of air in very particular conditions
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| 7th Apr 2008 4:01 am |
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ianv
Member Since: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Bungendore, New South Wales
Posts: 338
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I'll go with you on that wopac5 but it sure smells suspect doesn't it.
 TDV6
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| 7th Apr 2008 9:29 am |
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garryc
Member Since: 08 May 2007
Location: Adelaide Hills
Posts: 259
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| Re: An Australian first, or so I'm told.... |
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drivesafe wrote:away wrote:NT does not stand for Northern Territory, it stands for Not Today, Not Tomorrow, Not Tuesday, Not Thursday, Not by Truck and Not by Train if you are waiting for parts.
Very funny but the Territorians may not be impressed, but none the less, still very funny.
Hope your problems are solved soon, very soon.
Cheers
Mate  I lived in Alice for 6 years and Darwin for 3 and I can tell you that it is impossible to get anything done quickly or competently in the "Territory" I kid you not I must say though that the LR dealer in Alice is very good as I have known and used them over the years  2013 D4, E-diff, Vision pack
Never propose to a Yak
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| 7th Apr 2008 9:33 am |
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away
Member Since: 18 Nov 2006
Location: Cossack
Posts: 111
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wopac5 wrote:Ianv
It might smell like a gas, but it is definitely NOT LP gas. LPG will work, as is exibits similar properties, but is made up of propane C3H8, which, as you point out, is inflammable, and illegal for use in this application in Australia.
See the link attached for the actual gas (refrigerant) used.
http://www.kangmei.com/r%20134a.htm?gclid=...ggodTi8Obg
Although containing hydrogen and carbon, the chemical structure makes it non-flammable.
Below is an extract from the MSDS for R134a
Specific Hazards
Extinguishing Media In case of fire in close proximity, all means of extinguishing are acceptable.
Specific Hazards
Non-flammable
Formation of dangerous gas/vapours in case of decomposition.
Gas/vapours combustion posible in presence of air in very particular conditions
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G'day Wopac,
I'm not disputing the make up of the refrigerent. The odorant used that gives most flammable gases their smell is ethyl mercaptans and that is the smell I could detect. I worked for 15 years on an un-odorised natural gas pipeline in WA. The "smell" was injected into the lateral pipelines that fed domestic users.
The smell my car was making was exactly like ethyl mercaptans.
Cheers,
Russ.
PS Good and bad news. The compressor arrived, but when the old one was removed it was full of metal filings. The TX valve and dryer also need to be replaced because of this. Additionally the whole system will need to be thoroughly flushed out.
They have to pull the entire dashboard out to get to the TX valve. D4: Expedition Rack, 104 Litre Long Range Tank, Raised Air Intake
D3: Every bloomin' thing but the kitchen sink
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| 11th Apr 2008 6:42 am |
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wopac5
Member Since: 20 May 2007
Location: Karratha
Posts: 146
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Hi Russ,
Know exactly what your saying...have worked in the oil and gas operations for 30 years, 10 with, then, ICI, 10 of which were with Shell and the last 11 with Woodside.
R134a is NOT flamable, Have a look at the website attached earliar...in indicates the odour of r134a as being "etheryl", which is similar to the ethyl mercaptans that is put into domestic supplies (actually added just down the road from the Woodside plant to service the entire Burrup-Bunbury pipeline).
However, if you have had your system serviced by someone, it is possable they did use LPG as a cheap recharge. If that's the case, then it would go a long way in explaining the damage, as LPG doesn't have the same lubricating qualaties of r134a.
Any way, it's a  when you're in the situation you've got. Hope the dealer does a good job with the repair, as it sounds like there's a lot to go back, and you just know there'll be a rattle in dash afterwards.
Cheers
Tony
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| 11th Apr 2008 5:33 pm |
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away
Member Since: 18 Nov 2006
Location: Cossack
Posts: 111
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wopac5 wrote: which is similar to the ethyl mercaptans that is put into domestic supplies (actually added just down the road from the Woodside plant to service the entire Burrup-Bunbury pipeline).
Cheers
Tony
G'day Tony,
the air con has never been worked on, so I guess the odorant I smelled was the etheryl that you speak of. It seems it has very similar properties to ethyl mercapatans, particularly the smell.
Just to correct you on the above quote from you previous message, the DBNGP is NOT odorised. It was in the very early days but the major users of the gas, ALCOA and Worsley, were having problems with their processes and the odorant plant at the Delivery Point was decommissioned.
In conjunction with that being decommisioned, smaller injection points were set up on the Carnarvon and Geraldton laterals and wherever domgas was taken out for reticulation in the City and smaller towns.
We were ever vigilant when working on the line as you could only be sure that there was no gas present by using a sniffer. (Well, we put our trust in them anyway.)
Cheers,
Russ. D4: Expedition Rack, 104 Litre Long Range Tank, Raised Air Intake
D3: Every bloomin' thing but the kitchen sink
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| 12th Apr 2008 6:40 am |
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