Member Since: 29 Jun 2021
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 181
Prop shaft needs welding?
Hi guys,
Just looking for a bit of advice from you knowledgeable bunch.
For a little while I've suspected that the prop shaft needs attention due to some of the interesting noises coming from that area.
Took it to a garage for a service and to check the prop shaft and he confirmed that it's shagged... centre bearing gone etc. I was expecting this so no surprise.
The bit that's thrown me is he said that he's going to book me in to take the prop shaft off to send it to a specialist to cut, weld and rebalance? I just assumed he'd order a new kit and fit a new one.
I don't really understand why the prop needs cutting to resolve a knackered bearing etc? Could someone please enlighten me?
As you may have already worked out, I'm not too clued up in this area.
Thanks
Mike
5th Nov 2022 1:11 pm
rrhool
Member Since: 28 Aug 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4442
It is possible to change the centre bearing, but I suspect the rear uj will be knackered too. It's also possible to replace the uj, but you need specialist press equipment to install the UK correctly. Of course, if you had done all that, the prop would need rebalancing. To be honest, it's just not worth the stress. Get a new GKN prop, and be done with it.
Edit - As DN says below, no cutting or welding is required. That sounds like BS Richard
D3 SE 2007. Triumph 2.5Pi 1973. Ferguson TEA20 1948.
Discovery 2 4.0 ES 2001- Gone
Discovery 1 300Tdi ES '95 - Gone
Range Rover Classic '79 - Gone
Last edited by rrhool on 5th Nov 2022 2:29 pm. Edited 1 time in total
5th Nov 2022 2:11 pm
DN D3 Decade
Member Since: 24 Jun 2006
Location: W.London.
Posts: 2317
It doesn’t need cutting / welding / rebalancing, it can be dismantled to replace the centre bearing, but it is a tricky process, and rarely successful for long. You would be better off buying a new propshaft assy ( including centre bearing) and having that fitted, or fit it yourself.D3 owned from new, P017 brake recall, BAS FBHIC, new FBH, LR013487 oil pump, new water pump. RRS front lower suspension arms. New suspension compressor/ relay. New Denso alternator. CuNifer rear brake pipes. New GKN rear propshaft. New HPFP belt & tensioner. New A/C Condenser.NO WARRANTY for many many years.
5th Nov 2022 2:12 pm
Bracechenko
Member Since: 29 Jun 2021
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 181
Hmm....I think I'm going to take it to another garage that I have used before for a 2nd opinion. I'm happy to pay for a new prop so don't really want to mess about trying to fix the existing parts.
Thanks all
5th Nov 2022 2:42 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8154
Prop shafts are not items to be experimented with, people have been killed with them in the past when they have let go at speed, usually when accelerating or going uphill It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
5th Nov 2022 7:49 pm
LRD4GAB
Member Since: 05 Nov 2020
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 484
I woundnt be going that route ,sounds well dodgy, could be catastrophic
Member Since: 07 Nov 2008
Location: Off the Plain
Posts: 1592
Exactly. A new one will have new joints both ends as well as the bearing in the middle.
Not saying there aren’t people who can make one up and balance it better than the factory tolerance - they do for classic cars where originals aren’t available, but it doesn’t make sense on a D3/4.
6th Nov 2022 12:05 am
loanrangie
Member Since: 18 Jun 2017
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 648
I would expect that the workshop is taking about cutting the crimped metal cover off the shaft that covers the joint and then welding it back together , i don't get the need to replace the entire shaft since every rear wheel drive vehicle since the late 70's uses a 2 piece shaft with a center bearing - not rocket science or anything new.
6th Nov 2022 4:46 am
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1820
Re: Prop shaft needs welding?
Bracechenko wrote:
I don't really understand why the prop needs cutting to resolve a knackered bearing etc? Could someone please enlighten me?
In the professional “propshaft business” this is daily business, trucks, lorry’s, bulldozer’s excavators, for all those uses they do it that way… nothing wrong with that….
I have read all the reactions here, mainly regarding” buy a new one”
I have no quality related opinion to that, but i have seen and sold hundreds of refurbished propshafts and there is no quality difference if done properly, regarding the balancing, they are often even better..
Edit: 10.12h before the “speed” joker is pulled: we also use refurbished props on motorcycles capable of 200km/h + (260km/h even)
So please don’t write that workshop off as “bad” or wrong”. Really it is not “wrong” or un professional to do it that way…
Regarding jobs, waste, environmental reasons, there is something to say about, “repair” in stead of “just import a new one” either….. it is not all made in britain these days.. Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
Last edited by Motolab on 6th Nov 2022 10:15 am. Edited 1 time in total
6th Nov 2022 9:29 am
LRD4GAB
Member Since: 05 Nov 2020
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 484
That's a very interesting post,got me thinking I have a reputable company near me
,I'm wondering if thy can do it
6th Nov 2022 9:43 am
Bungle
Member Since: 07 Apr 2015
Location: Wanborough
Posts: 256
DN wrote:
It doesn’t need cutting / welding / rebalancing, it can be dismantled to replace the centre bearing, but it is a tricky process, and rarely successful for long. You would be better off buying a new propshaft assy ( including centre bearing) and having that fitted, or fit it yourself.
I suspect the garage has taken a look, decided that repairing the propshaft is a specialist job so want to send it off to a specialist propshaft company as it is beyond their skillset which is fair enough and actually quite common with larger propshafts and becoming more common with smaller ones as well where the days of just being able to knock out a knackered UJ and replace it on the bench are gradually passing. In this case it doesn't need welding but they may not know that and are passing it to a company that will know how to deal with it. It is a valid approach, after all, years ago small garages would rebuild engines and gearboxes on site but nowadays you would just send them off to be rebuilt (or more often do an exchange) and this is the same principle.
The garage I use specialise in Landrovers and consequently have built the knowledge up to do the centre bearing change, they did mine around 50k miles ago and I have had no issues, so if done well (either by a propshaft specialist company or a garage which have the knowledge and experience) it is a sensible and long term repair.
In summary, sending the propshaft off is not necessarily a sign of a poor garage though it would be sensible to compare the costs with just fitting a new one (I would expect a refurb to be a fair bit cheaper) and a centre bearing replacement is a perfectly good repair if done properly.
7th Nov 2022 7:42 pm
DN D3 Decade
Member Since: 24 Jun 2006
Location: W.London.
Posts: 2317
As mentioned above, the rear prop centre bearing is not the ONLY consideration. U/J’s do not last forever. The rear U/J on mine was very notchy and stiff after 94,000 relatively easy miles. After renewing the rear prop, the fuel consumption on my D3 immediately went from <24mpg to around 31mpg A figure I hadn’t seen for ages, and I am convinced it was the rear U/J producing significant ‘drag,’ as nothing else was done to the vehicle at that time. I’d suggest that for the majority of D3’s or D4’s with that kind of mileage, or more, it would be far better to just replace the complete prop.D3 owned from new, P017 brake recall, BAS FBHIC, new FBH, LR013487 oil pump, new water pump. RRS front lower suspension arms. New suspension compressor/ relay. New Denso alternator. CuNifer rear brake pipes. New GKN rear propshaft. New HPFP belt & tensioner. New A/C Condenser.NO WARRANTY for many many years.
7th Nov 2022 11:34 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1820
Everybody has the right on their own opinion..
So TO make up your own after reading all the input here..
But everything on a propshaft, incl UJ can be replaced/refurbished, major A+ brands do supply UJ bearings
IMHO There are just 2 perfectly good solutions for “one” problemBest regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
7th Nov 2022 11:46 pm
Bracechenko
Member Since: 29 Jun 2021
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 181
Quick update for anyone who reads this in the future....
I decided to continue with the specialist drive shaft 3rd party that were suggested by the garage that I took it to. The feedback was that they would be able to resolve the centre bearing issue but they also said that the CV joints were also extremely worn and recommended that I simply replace with a new kit rather than refurbish all the existing.
So, in the end, new prop shaft full assembly coming. £350+VAT + 1.5 hours labour (removal and re-fitting).
I've not got the car back yet but at this point I'll assume there will be no issues. Will report back if there are!
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A figure I hadn’t seen for ages, and I am convinced it was the rear U/J producing significant ‘drag,’ as nothing else was done to the vehicle at that time. I’d suggest that for the majority of D3’s or D4’s with that kind of mileage, or more, it would be far better to just replace the complete prop.
