Member Since: 01 Feb 2019
Location: Guyancourt
Posts: 16
Fragments in oil filter
Hello everyone,
I've come to ask for your opinion on some scary news. My 2007 RRS TDV6 comes from overhaul with engine oil change, gearbox oil change, axles and transfer case. It has traveled 390,000 kms and I maintain it every year.
However, my mechanic alerted me to fragments found in the oil filter. I have read the horrors of crankshaft failures and I would like your opinion. The car drives very well and no suspicious engine noise. Except for clicking noises at cold start.
Thank you in advance for your advice.
2nd Aug 2021 7:03 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 360
What did he find in the filter? Appearance, magnetic, etc?
Cut the filter paper off the element and open out the paper to assess itSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
3rd Aug 2021 8:22 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5044
Sounds like it be cam shaft related but as Breg90 says you need to see the detail, if the mechanic still has it.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Aug 2021 8:57 am
Range78
Member Since: 01 Feb 2019
Location: Guyancourt
Posts: 16
Breg90 wrote:
What did he find in the filter? Appearance, magnetic, etc?
Cut the filter paper off the element and open out the paper to assess it
I found tiny fragments of silver color. I have the filter and I have already opened it, I still have to do a test with a magnet.
3rd Aug 2021 10:11 am
Range78
Member Since: 01 Feb 2019
Location: Guyancourt
Posts: 16
PROFSR G wrote:
Sounds like it be cam shaft related but as Breg90 says you need to see the detail, if the mechanic still has it.
yes, I was thinking of the camshaft, because when starting I have the characteristic noise for 2 or 3 seconds.
I have to do 3000 kms next week, do you think I'm taking a risk?
3rd Aug 2021 10:16 am
nigethecat
Member Since: 11 Sep 2016
Location: Marnoch
Posts: 4244
At that age and mileage any trip is a risk but sounds like you've maintained it as best you can so enjoy it (and take out breakdown insurance) I want to see the sweets before I get into your windowless van... I'm not stupid!
Corris Grey D4 Commercial SE 2016
Zermatt Sliver 2007 D3 SE manual (gone)
Indus Silver D4 HSE 2015 (gone)
Bonatti Grey D3 HSE 2006 (gone)
White D3 S (LHD) 2007 (gone)
Firenze Red D4 HSE 2014 (gone)
Black RRS 3.6TDV8 2008 (gone)
Rusty Green Defender 110 1997 (gone)
Black FL2 HSE 2013 (gone)
3rd Aug 2021 10:37 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5044
Range78 wrote:
PROFSR G wrote:
Sounds like it be cam shaft related but as Breg90 says you need to see the detail, if the mechanic still has it.
yes, I was thinking of the camshaft, because when starting I have the characteristic noise for 2 or 3 seconds.
I have to do 3000 kms next week, do you think I'm taking a risk?
If you're hearing noise on start up its likely to be the timing chains/tensioners in the heads. I recommend changing these at around 200,000kms. Equally, at that mileage the oil pump will be weakening now if it's still the original! It should ideally have been upgraded to the later type when your last belt service was done, if not before. I personally also recommend changing the oil spec from 5w30 to 5w40 at 200,000 provided there is no DPF fitted.
As for catastrophic risk with a pending 3,000 kms journey? Its possible, especially if you are running on original oil pump and chains, and there's metal filings showing up in your oil filter!
Then again, "If no one ever took risks Michelangelo would have painted the Sistine floor" yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Aug 2021 11:30 am
Range78
Member Since: 01 Feb 2019
Location: Guyancourt
Posts: 16
nigethecat wrote:
At that age and mileage any trip is a risk but sounds like you've maintained it as best you can so enjoy it (and take out breakdown insurance)
I bought it 3 years ago and since then I have made three much longer trips.
3rd Aug 2021 9:03 pm
Range78
Member Since: 01 Feb 2019
Location: Guyancourt
Posts: 16
PROFSR G wrote:
Range78 wrote:
PROFSR G wrote:
Sounds like it be cam shaft related but as Breg90 says you need to see the detail, if the mechanic still has it.
yes, I was thinking of the camshaft, because when starting I have the characteristic noise for 2 or 3 seconds.
I have to do 3000 kms next week, do you think I'm taking a risk?
If you're hearing noise on start up its likely to be the timing chains/tensioners in the heads. I recommend changing these at around 200,000kms. Equally, at that mileage the oil pump will be weakening now if it's still the original! It should ideally have been upgraded to the later type when your last belt service was done, if not before. I personally also recommend changing the oil spec from 5w30 to 5w40 at 200,000 provided there is no DPF fitted.
As for catastrophic risk with a pending 3,000 kms journey? Its possible, especially if you are running on original oil pump and chains, and there's metal filings showing up in your oil filter!
Then again, "If no one ever took risks Michelangelo would have painted the Sistine floor"
During the purchase 3 years ago, I carried out a complete maintenance: belts, oil pump etc ... It is true that I did not change the chain and the tensioner. Do you think the glitter comes from there?
The question is: the old oil changes that were made, did the mechanics check the oil filter? we noticed them today because my mechanic was thinking about checking the oil filter.
3rd Aug 2021 9:07 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5044
My guess would be the cam caps/cam bearings, but I've seen it before on engines most of which still continue to run.
But... they did have remedial work done by replacing the chains and tensioners, as well as the oil pump etc.
If you decide to do it make sure you change the chains and tensioners as its the failing chain that will cause the damage. And be in no doubt they do snap, its just a question of when!
I would also recommend you change to 5w40 given your mileage, but only if you do not have a DPF yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Aug 2021 10:05 pm
Range78
Member Since: 01 Feb 2019
Location: Guyancourt
Posts: 16
Thank you for the precision of your answers.
I will change the channels and switch to 5W40 when I return from vacation. This will also allow me to check the oil after 3000 kms. I am in EURO4 so no DPF. Do you have a brand to recommend? Currently I am using the Motul special Land Rover Jaguar.
3rd Aug 2021 10:30 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5044
I wouldn't get too hung up on brands, just use a good quality oil that's fs and change it regularly. ie Well within the manufacturer recommended interval.
The other important point I would make here is not to let anyone other than a LR independent specialist do the work. If they haven't done it before walk away and find one that has.
It's not a massive job but it is awkward and can be a bit slow going especially with the body on. Body off it's quick and easy, but you would only take this route if you had other issues which will need attention such as suspension, drive line, or body components. yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Aug 2021 11:36 pm
Range78
Member Since: 01 Feb 2019
Location: Guyancourt
Posts: 16
ok I would stay on a usual quality of oil, I am lucky to have two specialties not too far away,
It is normally able to do this work without lifting the body.
4th Aug 2021 11:49 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5044
Yes, but it's an entire strip out of the top of the engine to get to the cams leaving just the bare heads in place. The front has to be partially stripped as well, so you should include new t belts and tensioners.
The old belts will have stretched, so not wise to attempt a refit!
Because the engine is partially submerged under the scuttle panel assess to the rear is awkward and slow going at times. You can't rush it, it is what it is, otherwise body off.
Personally, I just take the body off, life's too short.
In any case it allows you to address preventative maintenance big time whilst it's off, especially worth considering if the car is going to be a keeper! yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
4th Aug 2021 1:13 pm
Range78
Member Since: 01 Feb 2019
Location: Guyancourt
Posts: 16
You are right. Bravo for the disassembly! I am thinking of doing the same thing in October with the chains and chain tensioner, distribution belts, oil pump etc ...
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Thank you for the precision of your answers.
