Member Since: 02 Aug 2016
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 87
Towing issues with large trailer - TowTrust fixed
Welcome any similar experiences or suggestions before I am finally overruled and sell the Disco for a horse lorry!
Have towed a reasonably small Ifor Williams horse trailer happily with a removable tow-bar for about 5 years.
Moved about 18 months ago to a bigger, heavier tri-axle trailer, which weighs about 1,900kg unladen. Close to 3T when fully loaded.
Pretty quickly on, realised that even with the security plate, kept hearing movement on the removable tow bar and didn't feel particularly safe - so opted for a TowTrust fixed.
Increased tyre pressures also up to max pressure to deal with the additional weight (20" Scorpions)
For a while now, we're getting quite challenging pulling or snaking, most noticeable on ruined inside lanes on dual carriageways or motorways. Two hands firmly on the wheel like I'm holding on for dear-life.
End up having to slow down to late 40's and no faster than very early 50's.
On a windy day, really is quite challenging.
Trailer has been thoroughly checked out by manufacturer and service centre, no reason it should be wobbling.
Car is pushing 100k and has towed for 6 of it's 8 year life, most weekends.
- Front arms were replaced around 50k, is similar needed on the rear?
- Could rear compressor/compressors be failing?
- I *think* (but didn't measure) the TowTrust tow ball sits slightly higher than the LR detachable. Has anyone else had issues and lowered the tow ball with an additional plate?
Photo on stoney drive is with removable - petrol station is with TowTrust. I could be imagining it but the TowTrust LOOKS like the nose is higher.
- I've noticed that when unhitched, suspension feels 'hard', i.e. feeling every bump in the road. Put this down to poor roads where we live and the higher tyre pressure?
- Perhaps unrelated (however unexplained also), outside edge of near-side front tyre is fairly worn. I put this down to under-inflated tyres in their early life with the heavy trailer.
Any thoughts welcomed. Slowly going through a process of elimination and with the trailer eliminated from our enquires, it's back to the car.
CheersLuke
D4 MY13 HSE Lux
23rd Jun 2021 1:37 pm
James W
Member Since: 27 Mar 2008
Location: Riyadh, KSA
Posts: 3079
I moved from a LR detachable to a TowTrust fixed bar on my D4 but before I did, I checked the tow ball height as I wanted it to remain the same (as my caravan sat dead level when hitched)
The ball was exactly the same height. FWIW I noticed no difference whatsoever between the two in terms of towing experience. I always suffered slight 'side-pull sway' with large vans and motorhomes passing me on the motorway, and also a slight vertical 'bobbing' at the rear of the D4 when pulling away that I could never eliminate despite new tyres on D4 and caravan, different pressures, different nose-weights (ranging from about 80kg to 100kg) and different caravan loading.
That said, it always towed best with a higher nose-weight. May be worth getting the bathroom scales out and seeing what your nose-weight is out of interest. I appreciate this is a faff if you've got horses waiting impatiently for you.
Edit: This is why nose weight is so important:
https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-for...n_demo.mp4D4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
2018 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography - Gone to someone with less sense and more time to enjoy it
2016 Toyota Hilux Invincible - Liberating experience
At that mileage, rear upper arms could be coming to the end of their life. Also sounds like a tyre alignment is due (ideally leave until after suspension is checked as it would need redone if work required). Would you be able to try the trailer on another vehicle and try another heavy trailer on your vehicle to see if anything replicates across?
As mentioned above, probably the easiest thing to do is check nose weight. Ive never towed a triaxle but id imagine it harder to get an adequate nose weight.
23rd Jun 2021 1:55 pm
lukeob
Member Since: 02 Aug 2016
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 87
Thanks for the quick responses - I'd seen your thread before James, that eliminates tow bar height
I should have said also Swansty - recently had tracking done, at Kwik Fit. Taking the option of buying one of their 8 free visits in 2 years, which is cheaper than doing twice. Will get it checked again.
Assume rear upper arms would be classed as wear and tear and not covered on LR Extended Warranty
Nose weight of the trailer is stated as 150kg, which is another reason I went for TowTrust rather than the LR fixed.
That video nearly made me throw up!
From memory, everything was fine till one day it was wobbly on the motorway. Got to destination and noticed rear nearside tyre was low. Inflated and we had a blow out on the motorway driving home - horses in trailer on the M3! Even with Uncle Ray spare wheel protector, managed to get the spare down and wheel changed PDQ while we panicked someone was going to rear end the trailer and horses.
Ever since, tyre pressure kept high.
May need to try and borrow another vehicle to fully eliminate the trailer.
CheersLuke
D4 MY13 HSE Lux
23rd Jun 2021 3:26 pm
James W
Member Since: 27 Mar 2008
Location: Riyadh, KSA
Posts: 3079
Is 150kg noseweight stated as a maximum the hitch is designed to handle, or is it stated as "this trailer, when hitched, pushes 150kg on the hitch"
If the noseweight on the hitch were 150kg when towing you would be at maximum stated noseweight capacity of the TowTrust bar anyway. It's quite heavy as far as nosewieghts go, that.
If your noseweight is actually quite light in reality (let's say 30kg or something) it would be a strong possible cause of the symptoms you describe.
I know it's probably a massive pain but I'd try and check the noseweight with the horses onboard just to know where you're up to and eliminate it as a cause.
Bathroom scales method is easy and cheap. I have a milenco gauge as shown further down.D4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
2018 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography - Gone to someone with less sense and more time to enjoy it
2016 Toyota Hilux Invincible - Liberating experience
Last edited by James W on 23rd Jun 2021 3:41 pm. Edited 1 time in total
23rd Jun 2021 3:34 pm
Weyboat
Member Since: 13 Apr 2018
Location: Weymouth
Posts: 273
High tyre pressures and low profile tyres = Harsh ride.
The low profiles tyre sidewalls don't flex as much as standard profile tyres because they contain less shock absorbing air... Simples!Gone 2016 Landmark D4
Current 2015 HSE D4 - AKA - 'Gandalf the Grey'
23rd Jun 2021 3:37 pm
Jamiehol
Member Since: 13 Nov 2015
Location: Ipswich
Posts: 387
I get this towing my Ifor Williams car transporter trailer particularly noticeable on the M1 between junction 24 and Leicester services.
My D4 has a Land Rover fixed bar on it, I have also noticed the inner edge of one of my rear tyres is work so I am suspecting a rear arm wear issue on mine but need to get it checked when it’s serviced.
I have experienced it with my D3 towing the same trailer albeit on a different stretch of road and I know that does have a worn upper rear arm bush.
23rd Jun 2021 4:34 pm
Farmer Chalk
Member Since: 06 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4195
Get a lorry! Bit slower but far more comfier especially if you are staying overnight!
23rd Jun 2021 6:38 pm
Trailered Movements
Member Since: 16 Jan 2020
Location: East/West Sussex Coast Borders
Posts: 1200
One of my trailers is a tri-axle and has a tow ball height requirement of 410mm, 30mm less than a twin axle from the same manufacturer.
If I use it on the higher setting, it can get a bit lively if the road is uneven.
Your trailer maker will advise on what height it should be.
Irrespective of what size tyres you are running, I use 40psi in the rears and 36psi for the fronts, and I often am pulling 3 ton loads.
I moved from 255/55 x 20 tyres to 275/45 x 20, both Pirelli All Season, and the ride and handling improved.
I also have my Disco 4 running at -10mm suspension height via IID.
Many things can cause what you experience, but this has been my way to get the best ride and handling.
Dave2011 Discovery 4 Commercial SDV6 (Gone)
2010 RRS TDV8 (Gone)
1980 OBLIC 4.0ltr Range Rover (went a long time ago)
23rd Jun 2021 9:56 pm
Sylvester19
Member Since: 17 Jul 2020
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 128
What you have to appreciate, its a triaxle and it really wants to go its way, especially on a bad road surface/ tram lines in lane 1, it'll swing you about, not much give in the suspension compared to an ifor HB10 as already mentioned do want a some nose weight, lot of surface area when its windy as well! Think I'd have a disco spare in the trailer, be a quicker change!
Think a lorry may be the answer!
23rd Jun 2021 10:19 pm
jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 769
i agree, your trailer nose looks slightly too high making the disco rear end very light over bumps....
Could be a simple fix of lowering the disco a little as suggested by others already
23rd Jun 2021 10:38 pm
Weyboat
Member Since: 13 Apr 2018
Location: Weymouth
Posts: 273
redactedGone 2016 Landmark D4
Current 2015 HSE D4 - AKA - 'Gandalf the Grey'
so it's the 255/55 tyre with more sidewall height, 15% more.
edit : you cheated !!! .... but it is early. I've checked my maths 3 times to make sure the first thoughts were right..
Dean
====================================
2011 D4 XS - OBD port protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms
24th Jun 2021 5:45 am
Weyboat
Member Since: 13 Apr 2018
Location: Weymouth
Posts: 273
Yes, I was confused.com and realised my mistake so redacted the post.
In other words GOTCHA!!!Gone 2016 Landmark D4
Current 2015 HSE D4 - AKA - 'Gandalf the Grey'
24th Jun 2021 6:32 am
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1130
Your sway will be directly related to tow ball weight - it needs to be increased but you are limited by your ridiculously low ball weight of 150kg - so on about 5% on the ball which really is on the margins of being too light given the trailer weight of 3t.
Here in Aust, even with the same vehicle we have 350kg ball weight so can load up to a better ball weight of 10% of the trailer weight - the best is probably about 8%. All our trailers here are up around the 3t mark and we do not have too many problems.
Given your 3t and only 150kg ball weight, all I can suggest is that you load up to that amount and drive very cautiously and there is not much else you can do.
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... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
