Member Since: 15 Aug 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 742
Insurance claim dilema - advice please!
Not been in this situation before so seeking the collective experience and wisdom of the forum.
Our MY06 Discovery 3 HSE with 210,000 miles has been assessed a cat N total write off by the insurer in relation to a bent suspension arm and dented rear quarter panel.
Settlement figure is £3,280 and owner retain value is £2,328.
Despite asking for the assessment to only be based on the bent suspension arm and not the rear quarter panel damage this is what I have.
What I'm not completely sure about are the implications of accepting the owner retain value. While I'm fairly sure this more than covers the costs of two new rear upper arms and then sorting the alignment thus fixing my real issue with the car chewing through its tyres every 14 months, I'm unsure how it could affect my insurance status and premium, or any further implications of this choice.
For instance, if I remedy the suspension and alignment, how would I demonstrate that the vehicle is completely fixed and amend the cat N status? If this isn't possible I need to weigh up the implications on future resale value and whether it's therefore worth accepting the full settlement figure.
In terms of the man maths it's worth saying the belts are overdue at the 210k miles mark and that I would like to retain the car as it was only refused an MOT certificate on the grounds of the worn tyres (which I already replaced) and the handbrake being disconnected due to seizing on, which I will fix myself if possible or pay for a new module. I'm hoping to order either a new car and prefer to run my D3 for the next 6-12 months while waiting.
Any thoughts on this welcome, be they reasoned or from experience.VR6 > 330D Touring > D3 HSE > !?XC90?!
Last edited by paulmeryan on 3rd Nov 2021 11:04 am. Edited 1 time in total
3rd Nov 2021 10:58 am
nigethecat
Member Since: 11 Sep 2016
Location: Marnoch
Posts: 4244
As far as I'm aware the Cat N status will remain on the vehicle until it is finally scrapped, therefore affecting any potential sale value if you wish to part with the car later.
If you intend to keep the car then it may affect your insurance premium as some companies won't cover Cat N or Cat S vehicles (even if the they have been checked by DVLA and passed).
At that age and mileage the offer seems pretty good to take the "retain value", get the work done and drive it until it falls apart... three years potentially or three days (it is a Disco ).I want to see the sweets before I get into your windowless van... I'm not stupid!
Corris Grey D4 Commercial SE 2016
Zermatt Sliver 2007 D3 SE manual (gone)
Indus Silver D4 HSE 2015 (gone)
Bonatti Grey D3 HSE 2006 (gone)
White D3 S (LHD) 2007 (gone)
Firenze Red D4 HSE 2014 (gone)
Black RRS 3.6TDV8 2008 (gone)
Rusty Green Defender 110 1997 (gone)
Black FL2 HSE 2013 (gone)
3rd Nov 2021 11:04 am
Dondiddy
Member Since: 26 Dec 2019
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 309
You could get an engineers report (and some insurers will ask for this) or you could simply put it in for a new MOT which is one way of proving its ok to be on the road. The cat N will stay with the car and this will be added as a note on the V5 . This cannot be removed as it has an impact on resale value and helps protect any potential buyer from unwittingly buying a damaged repaired vehicle.
3rd Nov 2021 11:12 am
paulmeryan
Member Since: 15 Aug 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 742
The time bomb aspect is never far from my mind.
I thought I had enough to weigh up before I went down this route.
Assessor did say I could not proceed with the claim at all and simply take the car back and it would not be registered as a cat N i.e. only Cat N if claim gets settled. Not sure about that now it's in their system.
Point being cost wise that might be best, as the car drives completely fine other than wearing the rear tyres through every 10-12k miles. I put a new budget set of Bridgestone Alenza (!?) on two weeks ago and drove 900 miles in a week without issues.
So the least I need to do legally and technically now is fix the handbrake to get through the MOT at the end of this month, and get the belts done. Car needs to last 6-12 months so don't think I can get away without doing the belts for more than 1k miles over the 210k mark really.
That could cost £2.5K which I'd barely make back at resale in 6-12 months +10k miles time anyway, so Cat N arguably makes little difference at this point in the car's life. Therefore taking the retain value would offset those costs and arguably make more sense than bearing the costs entirely or venturing into the current used market.
Have I overlooked or not considered anything here? Anyone.VR6 > 330D Touring > D3 HSE > !?XC90?!
3rd Nov 2021 11:30 am
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2889
Another option would be to heavily negotiate the replacement value of the car - I did this when my D3 had an under bonnet fire, the insurance couldn’t find any cars to match condition and age anywhere near their original value. Therefore they agreed to a higher payout but didn’t increase the buyback amount. The other thing is to accept the payment they offer and buy it back from the auction- if you know the vehicle it will be worth more to you than a random auction buyer so you could in ease your margin to repair it there too.
Not had a problem re insuring mine only needed a new mot to prove road worthy status for insuranceMust stop buying shiny toys....
3rd Nov 2021 3:06 pm
paulmeryan
Member Since: 15 Aug 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 742
darrind thanks.
Not sure I understand though. I follow increasing the settlement figure in the hope the buyback fig. (which I wasn't told) doesn't change. Which pushes me down the auction route if I'm to retain the car. Auction wise I'm not sure if having negotiated a higher settlement that would affect things, but either way as I understand it this hinges on how the auction price would compare to the buyback price.
I see some risk with that route given the currently insane used market. Autotrader has a dealer asking £4,500 for a 2005 (55) D3 S with 245k miles (yes, really!) and a 2006 (56) D3 SE with 190k miles for £3,995. Dealer prices both and quite inconsistent. Nonetheless, it does suggest pushing for a higher settlement as mine's a HSE and the £3,280 settlement seems low given what it'd cost me to replace.
Being worth more to me at auction also increases my cost to retain, if I did that, and how much of the settlement I'd be left with compared to the retain value I've been offered of £2,328 is uncertain. If I increased the settlement to say, £4,000, I'd need to buy at auction for less than £1,677 and that's without factoring in time, a currency which I have very little of these days. If not then it'd need to be less than £1,000.
Perhaps the Cat N status and knowing what it actually needs might work in my favour there though!
Further food for thought indeed. Thanks.VR6 > 330D Touring > D3 HSE > !?XC90?!
3rd Nov 2021 4:22 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73075
Another like of thought is drive it until she dies a grizzly death. Then the value of the car is in the pile of parts sold to peeps. Ignoring the price bubble madness at the moment, she’d deffo be worth more in parts than intact.
And I didn’t even use the s***p word!
3rd Nov 2021 4:47 pm
nigethecat
Member Since: 11 Sep 2016
Location: Marnoch
Posts: 4244
It's the thought that counts Del! I want to see the sweets before I get into your windowless van... I'm not stupid!
Corris Grey D4 Commercial SE 2016
Zermatt Sliver 2007 D3 SE manual (gone)
Indus Silver D4 HSE 2015 (gone)
Bonatti Grey D3 HSE 2006 (gone)
White D3 S (LHD) 2007 (gone)
Firenze Red D4 HSE 2014 (gone)
Black RRS 3.6TDV8 2008 (gone)
Rusty Green Defender 110 1997 (gone)
Black FL2 HSE 2013 (gone)
3rd Nov 2021 5:44 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
You know the car, so buy it back, fix it as cheap as possible, then run it until it expires.
3rd Nov 2021 5:52 pm
Farmer Chalk
Member Since: 06 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4195
I did this with my lads car after a slight accident he had…
You need to get the insurance company to increase their write off value… do this by sending them copies of adverts from a series of vehicles currently for sale with similar spec… they will also understand that Black book prices are currently out of the window… it’s also worth trying to get a valuation from WBAC of your vehicle ( obviously don’t tell them of the damage ) to show the insurance company that the value of your car is higher than they are currently offering…
I rejected two offers from them before agreeing a final valuation. I then bought the car back from them at the previously agreed buy back price.
The difference easily paid for the repair and a few other things.
As others have said the Cat N rating will remain regardless but in reality will make little or no difference to the value of your car given it’s age.
The insurance company will dictate that the car has to be MOT’d before they will renew or restart the insurance cover. Be aware that if you are paying for your insurance on instalments they will also dictate that the full premium will be required on pay out… thus this amount will be removed from any final payout…so you may get less than you initially expect unless you factor that in…
However you can repair the car quickly and once MOT’d the insurance company will then be obliged to continue cover as before.
Do it! It makes total sense…
3rd Nov 2021 6:23 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73075
Then strip?
3rd Nov 2021 6:27 pm
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2889
paulmeryan wrote:
darrind thanks.
Not sure I understand though. I follow increasing the settlement figure in the hope the buyback fig. (which I wasn't told) doesn't change. Which pushes me down the auction route if I'm to retain the car. Auction wise I'm not sure if having negotiated a higher settlement that would affect things, but either way as I understand it this hinges on how the auction price would compare to the buyback price.
I see some risk with that route given the currently insane used market. Autotrader has a dealer asking £4,500 for a 2005 (55) D3 S with 245k miles (yes, really!) and a 2006 (56) D3 SE with 190k miles for £3,995. Dealer prices both and quite inconsistent. Nonetheless, it does suggest pushing for a higher settlement as mine's a HSE and the £3,280 settlement seems low given what it'd cost me to replace.
Being worth more to me at auction also increases my cost to retain, if I did that, and how much of the settlement I'd be left with compared to the retain value I've been offered of £2,328 is uncertain. If I increased the settlement to say, £4,000, I'd need to buy at auction for less than £1,677 and that's without factoring in time, a currency which I have very little of these days. If not then it'd need to be less than £1,000.
Perhaps the Cat N status and knowing what it actually needs might work in my favour there though!
Further food for thought indeed. Thanks.
By going through dealers ads when I was in this situation my insurers moved the settlement they made up by nearly 2 grand for a 2009 HSE with 160k on the clock. Every vehicle they suggested was a lower spec car or in shabby condition. I was then able to get them to stick to the original buy back value as they were pretty much on the money with that, based on what it was worth with engine damage. The bonus for me was I knew it was superficial damage and a new set of under bonnet plastics throttle body and inlet manifolds squared the car up. Never had an issue with the write off status as far as insurance is concerned.Must stop buying shiny toys....
3rd Nov 2021 6:57 pm
garfield2
Member Since: 24 Jul 2008
Location: morley, leeds
Posts: 316
What you get for your car and the buy back price are all going to depend on a bit of time an£ effort from you to prove the value etc,
As for the vehicle being classed as Cat N (non structural) once repaired it can be booked into Autolign and have a very through examination by them, on successful completion and a pass the vehicle will be put on the “condition inspected register” and no longer be a Cat write off.
Autolign are the only company that HPi recognise as inspectors of Cat write off’s, after that your car insurance would be similar and again you could argue the value and quote the standard of repair.
Autolign have premises in Milton Keynes and Wolverhampton
Kind regards
MartinDiscovery 4.5 HSE 2015 MY
Discovery 3 SE 2007 MY gone with spinning journals
3rd Nov 2021 7:31 pm
Farmer Chalk
Member Since: 06 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4195
With my lads car they were happy with just an mot before putting it back on cover again… I am still with the same insurer 4 years later and using the usual comparison sites are still the cheapest and the policy costs have gone down each year..
The Cat N marker worries me not because of the current value of the car regardless ….
If you intend to sell it then show them the before and after photos… it would worry me on a 10k car but not a £2k car!
3rd Nov 2021 10:01 pm
paulmeryan
Member Since: 15 Aug 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 742
Thanks all for the help.
Only thing I'm still confused by is the retain value. Is this the buyback cost or is the buyback cost the settlement amount minus the retain value or cash in lieu amount.
I believe I am legally entitled to have my vehicle repaired up to the market value, not a percentage of that. In reality however this would require repairing the rear lhs quarter panel bodywork, which I could foresake if I take a settlement and put the funds towards the handbrake and timing belt.
Looks like I need to negotiate a better CIL amount as I want to retain and repair the car and keep using it till I can take delivery of something new.
I'll speak to my broker before my insurer. Also, the car's still roadworthy and I need it back asap, but the assessor/authorised repairer (Copart) said they can't return it until the claim's settled and if I want it back while deciding my insurer may pass costs on to me. Sounds like pressure to settle quickly.VR6 > 330D Touring > D3 HSE > !?XC90?!
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