Member Since: 13 Feb 2021
Location: Newbridge
Posts: 8
3D Solidworks Models of Land Rover Discovery Wheels
Hi All
I'm looking to get a custom axle built by AL-KO for an overland camping trailer I'm building, and in order to ensure there will be no road safety issues, their German Engineers have requested I obtain 3D Solidworks models of the 2 rims I'm considering, one of which is an exact match for my D4 stock 10 spoke alloys.
I've already emailed Land Rover Ireland on Tuesday 16th Feb, but I've had no response as yet. Obviously everything in tje world is difficult with people working from home due to Covid.
Can anyone on here help me out please? Either Land Rover employees could send me these, or someone who knows any Land Rover employees could tell them of my plight??
Having worked for JLR, this is something that would never be sent out to someone via email etc. JLR use Catia V5, not solidworks so you'd need to request an .igs or .stp file from them.
I think a better suggestion would be to find someone who can do a 3D scan of either the wheel hub from your car or the mounting face of the alloy wheels.1972 Range Rover Classic 2 door V8
2013 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE - SCRAPPED
2016 Land Rover Discovery 4 Landmark
2022 Volvo XC40 T5 PHEV 282HP FWD 3 cylinder!
18th Feb 2021 9:40 pm
rrhool
Member Since: 28 Aug 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4519
Agree, you won't get a CAD model in any format from JLR. It's their proprietary information, and they don't give it out.Richard
D3 SE 2007. Triumph 2.5Pi 1973. Ferguson TEA20 1948.
Discovery 2 4.0 ES 2001- Gone
Discovery 1 300Tdi ES '95 - Gone
Range Rover Classic '79 - Gone
18th Feb 2021 10:14 pm
arjandelaney
Member Since: 13 Feb 2021
Location: Newbridge
Posts: 8
Thanks for your help guys. Much appreciated for sure.
Yes, to be honest I didn't hold much hope for being sent their CAD files directly, so I suggested that they send them directly to the chaps I'm dealing with at AL-KO, and leave me out of copy altogether. That way they have a record of them going to a very reputable international motoring company, and not just one of their car owners.
To be honest, it's a fair request. I've spent €60,000 on one of their vehicles, and I want to make sure that if I use their wheels on my trailer, that I'm not going to have, or cause, an accident on the road. It's purely a safety concern for society at large, like a duty if care thing, and I'm sure AL-KO don't want to be in any way responsible should a malfunction occur.
I've spoken to a pal of mine (D3 owner) yesterday who has a point cloud scanner, but this doesn't do like you suggest, as it only works in a box effectively, sending out infrared lasers which hit and return to the scanner. This won't build an object that AL-KO can use with their software. Do you know of something that will, and maybe who would have this sort of scanner?
Thanks again.
19th Feb 2021 7:19 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
Quote:
To be honest, it's a fair request. I've spent €60,000 on one of their vehicles, and I want to make sure that if I use their wheels on my trailer, that I'm not going to have, or cause, an accident on the road. It's purely a safety concern for society at large, like a duty if care thing, and I'm sure AL-KO don't want to be in any way responsible should a malfunction occur.
Why on earth would Land Rover want to get embroiled in use of their wheels in the construction of your trailer? I wouldn't. And it's not LRs 'duty of care' ....anything that AL-KO use will be their liability regardless.
Can't you just end them the stock D4 alloy? 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
19th Feb 2021 7:36 am
arjandelaney
Member Since: 13 Feb 2021
Location: Newbridge
Posts: 8
You misunderstand.
It is AL-KO's duty of care, not Land Rover's, which is why they have asked for the information. It's about safety to the public at large. It's also about AL-KO not being able to be sued, by carrying out a proper due diligence, in making sure that they are going to make for me, for my intended use, is safe.
I don't think there is anything wrong with using a Land Rover alloy on a trailer, once it has been proven to be safe. Do you? Land Rover would be promoting safety in providing this information. There is nothing to stop any person anywhere from putting one on a trailer and hoping for the best. This is not what I am doing.
Their concern is two-fold:
1. Will it rub, and
2. They're axles are designed for a 45mm offset, whereas my alloys are 53mm, and they are ensuring that there won't be any undue stress or wear on the bearings.
I could of course just buy stock AL-KO running gear, but I want to be able to use my vehicle spare if the trailer gets a puncture, and AL-KO, being the fantastic company that they are, want to give me what I want, safely.
19th Feb 2021 8:05 am
kajtzu
Member Since: 10 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6753
IPR perspective - JLR won’t release their IPR to a third party. Doesn’t make any business sense for them and also would create a precedent.
19th Feb 2021 8:07 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
arjandelaney wrote:
You misunderstand.
I don't personally think there is a risk in using an LR wheel within the load rating parameters of the wheel vs the weight of the trailer. The LR alloys are proven to be safe ..because they are fully crash tested and type-approved for use on their vehicles.
But you are asking a JLR to become formerly involved in the construction of a trailer as their involvement would promote the safety of a product they know nothing about?
You, or should I say, AL-KO is going to have to take their chances as to whether they are suitable given the known specifications of the wheel IMO.21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Even if JLR were to let you have the files, they're going to charge you more than a full set of 5 alloys would set you back.
I understand the loading aspects but the ratings for the wheel are publicly available.
As for rubbing, surely the trailer design affects that? Thought alko were just doing the axle?.
Dean
====================================
2011 D4 XS - OBD port protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms
19th Feb 2021 9:24 am
arjandelaney
Member Since: 13 Feb 2021
Location: Newbridge
Posts: 8
Yes, the trailer will be made so that the tyres don't rub off it.
AL-KO's engineers want to ensure the inside of the rim/tyre doesn't catch any part of the torsion axle, hence the solid model request.
I can stick my rim/tyre combo onto a scales to find the exact weight. I can also draw a cross section of it in CAD by measuring the inside (hub fitting) face and send it to them.
Surely they can calculate the rotational/sheer/compression forces on their bearings using loading and cross section drawing?? D4 wheel offset at 53mm is only 8mm off 45mm which is the axle's design rating.
I'll let you know how I get on, in case anyone else wants to go this road.
20th Feb 2021 9:16 am
McAdam
Member Since: 21 Nov 2020
Location: Canary Islands
Posts: 129
These are just Germans trying to be German.
Get a wheels and a yard stick with CM on it.
Take photos from every possible angle.
If possible measure important areas such as clearance inside of rim etc...
If they don't like it, send them a whole wheel.
This is their duty, you are not an engineer, but a customer.
JLR or anyone else would not give 3d Models.
If its the same rims I have I can 3d Model it for you, but it would cost quite a bit.
Easier to buy a rim and send it to them, even if from ebay.de
Good luck.Pre-Production
D3 V8 #264
LHD '04 HSE
Living its life as a 50/50 On/Off road car exploring the Canary Islands
Surely they can calculate the rotational/sheer/compression forces on their bearings using loading and cross section drawing?? D4 wheel offset at 53mm is only 8mm off 45mm which is the axle's design rating.
Sounds reasonable ... but 8mm is ~18% of 45mm so is it still reasonable ? assume both offsets are +ve ?.
I'd suggest that given the spacers folks use on D3/4s are usually much wider than 8mm and we don't seem to be inundated with stories of front wheels falling off, you're safe.
21st Feb 2021 1:44 pm
arjandelaney
Member Since: 13 Feb 2021
Location: Newbridge
Posts: 8
Yeah, but AL-KO 750kg rated axles, bubs and bearings are nowhere near as strong as a D4's. 8mm out further from the hub face is a fair more than it would be on an LR axle.
I run 25mm Rakeway spacers on my D4 as it happens.
I'll model it myself in SketchUp/REVIT, and try and convert the file then. Does anyone know what formats LR's software can import? I know someone mentioned two types above. Are there any more?
Failing all of this, I'll revert to standard 5x112 pattern hubs on axle, and buy 3 new steel 16" wheels and tyres. Be grand.
Hopefully I don't have to though. I've the bit between my teeth here!
21st Feb 2021 7:10 pm
robpenrose
Member Since: 12 Jan 2016
Location: Surrey / SW London
Posts: 2138
arjandelaney wrote:
Thanks for your help guys. Much appreciated for sure.
Yes, to be honest I didn't hold much hope for being sent their CAD files directly, so I suggested that they send them directly to the chaps I'm dealing with at AL-KO, and leave me out of copy altogether. That way they have a record of them going to a very reputable international motoring company, and not just one of their car owners.
To be honest, it's a fair request. I've spent €60,000 on one of their vehicles, and I want to make sure that if I use their wheels on my trailer, that I'm not going to have, or cause, an accident on the road. It's purely a safety concern for society at large, like a duty if care thing, and I'm sure AL-KO don't want to be in any way responsible should a malfunction occur.
I've spoken to a pal of mine (D3 owner) yesterday who has a point cloud scanner, but this doesn't do like you suggest, as it only works in a box effectively, sending out infrared lasers which hit and return to the scanner. This won't build an object that AL-KO can use with their software. Do you know of something that will, and maybe who would have this sort of scanner?
Thanks again.
If your friend has a laser scanner and you have Revit, then you’re away surely?
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