bobbycrispbox
Member Since: 15 May 2006
Location: Where women glow and men plunder
Posts: 2580
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| Advice required - elusive EGR/injector/cooling issues |
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I might have covered the symptoms elsewhere, but here we go again:
- Poor fuel economy
- excessive cooling fan noise when I've worked the engine hard for five minutes or more
- low power and slow gear changes under these circumstances
Autologic said that I had an EGR valve fault and an injector fault. The codes were cleared but came back when the engine was started.
The car is now with the dealer. The feedback from them is that IDS does not show the injector and EGR valve faults, only an over temperature fault on the air intake, which they're putting down to excessive amounts of mud in the intercooler and main radiator.
Now I've cleaned the radiator with a slow hosing for hours, until the water ran clear, and I've been across my radiator and intercooler with a tiny screwdriver straightening the fins - so I thought it was in pretty good shape.
I'd hope this post would generate some general discussion - but I do want to ask some specific questions to the experts.
1) How can I push for EGR valve and injector repair/replacement, if the dealer says they cannot get the same fault codes I did?
2) How much should I believe the dealer about the state of my radiators when I've spent so long cleaning them?
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 14th Feb 2008 6:33 pm |
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Martin
Site Admin and Owner
Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18456
  
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Rob - ask yourself why would a clogged rad and/or intercooler affect the air intake temperature?
Sounds like it could be a MAF/TMAP sensor issue, do you know what the specific fault code numbers are?
Martin 06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
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| 14th Feb 2008 6:57 pm |
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bobbycrispbox
Member Since: 15 May 2006
Location: Where women glow and men plunder
Posts: 2580
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I didn't ask the dealer about specific codes (although 10 might remember what the EGR valve/injector codes were that we saw in France). I don't think the dealer would have know the actual fault codes as the tech had gone home for the day when I spoke to him.
Now that I've looked up MAF and TMAP  I'll be able to ask a moderately informed question to the guys when I speak to them tomorrow. Oh, and I might have got the wrong end of the stick from the Dealer, he might not have been talking about intake air temp.
Given time, and help, I'll get a basic understanding of how a modern diesel engine works 
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| 14th Feb 2008 7:09 pm |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
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Fuel rail temp sensor. Or was it pressure I cant remember. It must be an age thing. Anyway The Blue Pearl had these symptoms and they were sorted when they changed the sensor. In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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| 14th Feb 2008 7:25 pm |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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Fuel rail temp sensor would give these symptoms although it showed OK when we read the codes in France...
The 'arduous service interval' does not include cleaning the rad. or intercooler, neither of which would account for a raised air temperature pre or post intercooler - especially with the current ambient temperatures 
Sounds like someone is being lazy......
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| 14th Feb 2008 8:17 pm |
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DiscoDunc
Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390
  
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my radiator and intercooler are well mucked up and I dont get the problem Rob. It was quite obvious on the way down to Croisiere that you were loosing power up the hills.. Duncan
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| 14th Feb 2008 8:32 pm |
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simoniz
Member Since: 28 Oct 2007
Location: The green green grass of home!!!!!
Posts: 3755
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Well I can confirm that EGR faults do show as fault codes as I have seen them with my own eyes on LRA mans gizmo when rescue attempted last week!!!. Also LR stealership confirmed same when vehicle made it in to the workshop.
Shame there is such inconsistant dealer advice.
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| 14th Feb 2008 8:37 pm |
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bobbycrispbox
Member Since: 15 May 2006
Location: Where women glow and men plunder
Posts: 2580
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Quote:my radiator and intercooler are well mucked up and I dont get the problem Rob. It was quite obvious on the way down to Croisiere that you were loosing power up the hills..
Yes, to me too.
Quote:Well I can confirm that EGR faults do show as fault codes as I have seen them with my own eyes on LRA mans gizmo when rescue attempted last week!!!. Also LR stealership confirmed same when vehicle made it in to the workshop.
Shame there is such inconsistant dealer advice.
But as a software engineer I'm also aware that intermittent system errors can be a real bugger to trace. At the moment I'm not at the point of lambasting the dealer - but I will argue the point when I think I'm being fed a line, as I possibly am at the moment. I do wish I had a convenient 'rural' dealer who understood what these vehicles were designed and built to do though.
You've all provided very helpful input - thanks for that. I'll let you know what transpires tomorrow when I speak to my chap tomorrow.
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| 15th Feb 2008 2:32 am |
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bobbycrispbox
Member Since: 15 May 2006
Location: Where women glow and men plunder
Posts: 2580
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Further update from dealer:
The overheat code didn't apparently relate to a specific component, it's just a general message Also, it's a historical error code that relates to my previous journeys, not to tests in the workshop. I'm getting a print out of the codes when I get the car back so I'll be able to see exactly what they're telling me.
I mentioned Fuel Rail temp sensor, MAF and TMAP, and was told that there's only so much you can do in testing these. The example given was that you can force the FBH into action by giving it a false input, but the same is not true for all the engine components. Obviously the dealer is not keen on swapping any of these components when there's no evidence of any problem with them.
And I'm back to square one, being told I need to get the rads cleaned before they'll investigate further. Not the answer I wanted to hear.
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| 15th Feb 2008 10:44 am |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26702
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I suppose to get the radiator and intercooler cleaned is a start, if it cures the problem then fair enough. If not then it should be immediately obvious and further investigation can continue.
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| 15th Feb 2008 12:38 pm |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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But you'd cleaned them already? How clean do they need to be!  Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 15th Feb 2008 12:46 pm |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26702
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My point been that its understandable that the dealer needs to clean them properly to satisfy themselves, then if the fault persists resulting in a warranty replacement of a component to to cure the problem, then the cleaning cost would surely be covered by the warranty 
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| 15th Feb 2008 12:53 pm |
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bobbycrispbox
Member Since: 15 May 2006
Location: Where women glow and men plunder
Posts: 2580
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Problem is that the dealer wants me to pay for five hours of workshop time to take the rads out and clean them. Which, if I was convinced it would solve the problem, I would agree to them doing. But as Dunc says, his rads are choked up with crap and he does not have the issues I have.
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| 15th Feb 2008 4:03 pm |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26702
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Are they not convinced thats the answer? If not, then I would expect a bit of flexibilty.
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| 15th Feb 2008 4:16 pm |
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bobbycrispbox
Member Since: 15 May 2006
Location: Where women glow and men plunder
Posts: 2580
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EGR valve fault came up on IDS today while they were testing for something else. Now they have to replace it 
EGR valves are back on back order again 
Dealer wants LR to provide a courtesy car, so it should be a HSE Disco from Enterprise
Have to explain to dealer why their courtesy car is covered in sand and mud 
And they're still struggling to get the seized bolt out of the rear suspension bush thang.
And they haven't even looked at the steering yet
I think my D3 is showing its age... Although, at 50k miles I'd hope it would be in a bit better shape 
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| 18th Feb 2008 2:46 pm |
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