Member Since: 17 Nov 2009
Location: West Calder
Posts: 632
A negative for General Grabber AT3
My GGAT3s have done 30,000 miles and have 5mm of tread left. I have been happy with them on the road in summer and in the cold and wet of winter. Off road new they seemed no better and no worse than the GG ATs I had on the last D4.
In the snow of the Beast from the East when out in the thick of it they were generally surefooted with one exception where they failed to make a low speed cornering manoeuvre I would have expected them not to struggle with and planted me in a drift. They would have been on 7mm tread at that stage.
Recently at a couple of off-road events on wet grass and greasy but not deep mud they have been very disappointing with particularly poor lateral stability, the slightest hint of side slope sent the car slithering out of line, all whilst at near-tickover letting the traction electronics try to do their thing.
Most recently a green road run involved failure to get through the one patch of rough, soft, rutted mud which other vehicles including Discos got through on less aggressive tyres.
If greasy mud is akin to slippery snow/ice then I need to get these changed before the winter arrives, with 5mm tread still to go - isn’t that about half the new depth, so only 50% worn?
If it’s not the tyres then maybe it’s the car electronics, does the terrain response ever misbehave and need resetting? Failing that, the only other possibility is the steering wheel - seat interface 2016 D4 Landmark SDV6 (Euro6), Zanzibar (late run D4)
2009 D4 HSE TDV6, Bali blue (first run D4)
2007 RRS TDV8 HSE, some blue
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Member Since: 02 Dec 2016
Location: blackpool
Posts: 408
I don’t like the grass/snow setting in the terrain response, it left me stranded on a slight hill in Ireland.
It cuts out any slippage which in turn stops momentum, I would of expected it to drive straight up the hill as just below the surface was stone, luckily I had a winch fitted and self recovered.
Can’t help thinking in my Defender it would of sailed up the hill.
7th Dec 2018 9:47 am
Collwyn
Member Since: 16 May 2010
Location: Shetland
Posts: 37
If you’re disappointed with the GG AT3’s winter/snow performance, you’ll be even more disappointed with the duratracs. The AT3’s are better in the snow/ice than duratracs. The duratracs in 254/55 r19 are very disappointing in the snow - I was nearly going to bite the bullet and buy a set of GG AT3’s to replace my duratracs which still have 7mm on the (new was 12mm) but there are next to no sipes left - they disappeared after 3mm..... not that it seemed to make them any better in the snow....
But after your comments that you’re not too happy with the GG AT3’s then I think I might have to go for a dedicated set of winter tyres.....
7th Dec 2018 10:07 am
vanpeebles
Member Since: 20 Mar 2018
Location: North East
Posts: 150
I've gone for Pirelli ATR Plus with the three peaks mark. Hoping for good things, been good so far!
7th Dec 2018 10:15 am
Reginald Molehusband
Member Since: 17 Nov 2009
Location: West Calder
Posts: 632
Really interesting comments, thanks.
Johnlad, that makes sense re the ggs setting. I repeated the offroad obstacle using several modes including DSC off, and the effects, though slightly different, all resulted in failure.
Collwyn, hearing your limitations of the Duratrac makes me lean towards the Pirelli All Terrain Plus. Though others on here whose opinion I respect rate them highly. How to know ...?
Vanpeebles, it’d be great to hear how you’re Pirelli All Terrain Pluses are getting on in detail.2016 D4 Landmark SDV6 (Euro6), Zanzibar (late run D4)
2009 D4 HSE TDV6, Bali blue (first run D4)
2007 RRS TDV8 HSE, some blue
.
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13541
Sadly, I think this is symptomatic of partially worn ATs generally. I too have found the AT3 to be less efective now half worn (5-6mm left having started with 10mm I believe). They're also less grippy on wet tarmac. They were excellent all round when new, however.
I would expect the Pirell AT+ to be similar, to.be honest.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
7th Dec 2018 12:22 pm
ILC
Member Since: 26 Nov 2011
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 75
I'm running Cooper AT3 Sports on both my D3 and FFRR.
I had the Coopers on the D3 last year throughout the beast from the East. I'm at 950ft in the Pennines on narrow lanes and they didn't let me down. (Plus farm tracks and on the occasional shoot).
I put them on the FFRR last month, so I'll see how they perform.Discovery 3
L322 Vogue
Defender 90 - 1993
David Brown 885
All Gone: Range Rover Classic 2 Door - 1978/Land Rover Series IIA - 1964/Land Rover 90 - 1987/Land Rover Series III - Air Portable - 1979
7th Dec 2018 2:11 pm
lespes
Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Sitting Down
Posts: 2232
Personally think that all Off Road tyres performance have been compromised by EU noise regs.
Seems to of been lots of anecdotes of GG failing to provide traction in similar situations and still the odd sidewall puncture stories. If you ever get the chance to feel the sidewall of GG with say a Pirrelli ATR before fitment, their is a huge difference in both thickness and flex.
Last year I went down the Winter tyre route for the first time on the D4 with Cooper Weather Masters which in the snow and ice this yr were great, even when trying hard to get them to lose grip. They like most winter tyres nowadays have a SNOW indicator on them which signifies when they are not as effective in Snow, which is normally about 4-5 mm.
As for Off road, never had chance to test in extreme conditions, but plenty of very wet,muddy or very wet grassy tracks which they coped with well and never experienced being stuck.
Also the stopping power in snow and ice was far improved D4 Landmark MY16 Santorini Black THE LAST
D4 HSE MY12 Marmais Teal: Gone. Missed a lot!
Freelander 2 SD HSE MY11 Silver:Thankfully gone.
D4 HSE MY11 Silver: Gone missed !
Range Rover Sport MY06 HSE Buck Blue: Gone missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Facelift MY Red Gone Missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Cobalt Blue: Gone Missed!
Discovery D1 Auto Oxford Blue Not missed at all!
Discovery D1 Avalon Blue First LR! missed!
Now demoted to a VW
7th Dec 2018 5:38 pm
Reginald Molehusband
Member Since: 17 Nov 2009
Location: West Calder
Posts: 632
Thanks Lespes.
Cooper Weather Masters worth a look too then. I'll add it to the list of possibles.2016 D4 Landmark SDV6 (Euro6), Zanzibar (late run D4)
2009 D4 HSE TDV6, Bali blue (first run D4)
2007 RRS TDV8 HSE, some blue
.
Member Since: 17 Nov 2009
Location: West Calder
Posts: 632
Then the eternal optimist in me wonders whether there is a market out there for half-worn AT tyres
Maybe someone who likes the look but doesn't go offroad much, or is getting ready to sell their car and its current tyres are unsellable.
It seems a waste to just have the tyre shop trash them when the new ones are fitted.
I can't decide if that was a serious question or not 2016 D4 Landmark SDV6 (Euro6), Zanzibar (late run D4)
2009 D4 HSE TDV6, Bali blue (first run D4)
2007 RRS TDV8 HSE, some blue
.
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
Wet grass has the power to stop any car in its tracks no matter what tyres fitted.
Ive had all sorts of issues over the years with my 90 and the series on various tyres, all with approx 10mm plus of tread, side slope grip on wet grass is where things can get interesting! and is to be avoided at all costs.
Wet chalk is another slippery , when we last had that snow I was laning and slid sideways and got wedged over a 20 foot drip into a field, I sat there with my foot jammed on the footbrake, release it the slightest bit and the car slid sideways, luckily I wasnt alone which I normally am and got someone to strop me to a tree and used my winch to get out, that is the closest I have ever come to totalling a car off road.
7th Dec 2018 7:31 pm
Reginald Molehusband
Member Since: 17 Nov 2009
Location: West Calder
Posts: 632
You're right, just trying to stack the odds as far in my direction as possible. The choice of car is one key part of that, the choice of tyre is another.2016 D4 Landmark SDV6 (Euro6), Zanzibar (late run D4)
2009 D4 HSE TDV6, Bali blue (first run D4)
2007 RRS TDV8 HSE, some blue
.
Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: Sitting Down
Posts: 2232
I'm sure they will sell on here, plenty of people looking for odd tyre or two, replace punctures, or fit on the spare wheel that they didn't do originally. D4 Landmark MY16 Santorini Black THE LAST
D4 HSE MY12 Marmais Teal: Gone. Missed a lot!
Freelander 2 SD HSE MY11 Silver:Thankfully gone.
D4 HSE MY11 Silver: Gone missed !
Range Rover Sport MY06 HSE Buck Blue: Gone missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Facelift MY Red Gone Missed!
Discovery D2 TD5 Cobalt Blue: Gone Missed!
Discovery D1 Auto Oxford Blue Not missed at all!
Discovery D1 Avalon Blue First LR! missed!
Now demoted to a VW
7th Dec 2018 10:12 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13541
I've seen 90s on full-on big knobbly mud tyres struggle on sloppy wet grass - they were exactly the same as me on Grabber AT at the time. If the tyres can't grip, they can't grip.
My Grabber AT3s have been decent tyres - they were very good in the beast from east last winter as they were nearly new. They've done two trips to Les Comes in Spain and behaved well on the broken rock tracks there. They're quiet on road, grippy enough that my RRS in dynamic mode can make silly progress on cross country roads. Until recently, they were good in the wet - for an AT tyres, of course.
The reality is that an AT is getting worn out by the time you're down to 5mm, in the same way that a road tyre at 3mm is getting a bit rubbish and ready to change.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
8th Dec 2018 1:01 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 14129
Hi
Interesting reviews on various tyres
had a set of 235/70/17 copper at/3 discoverer fitted and were pleased with them in the beast from the east
Alas haven’t really had chance to try them off road and using the range of terrain settings
Indeed agree ref how grass can be a right to get out of sometimes , When I’ve had to park on wet grass, i tried low range with DSC off and got out ok , think I was just lucky
just thought then it would allow me slow and steady progress , expect there’s a better way to set the landy up
Would like to get a set of proper winter tyres to see how they compare in the snow as so far only tried the coopers
Have had some Bridgestone duelers on other landies and also liked them but couldn’t find the sidewall rating at the time for the D3
Last edited by gstuart on 8th Dec 2018 4:50 am. Edited 3 times in total
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, when we last had that snow I was laning and slid sideways and got wedged over a 20 foot drip into a field, I sat there with my foot jammed on the footbrake, release it the slightest bit and the car slid sideways, luckily I wasnt alone which I normally am and got someone to strop me to a tree and used my winch to get out, that is the closest I have ever come to totalling a car off road.
