Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
'06 Disco 3 TdV6 Going into limp mode
I've searched through the forum but I'm at loss on how to troubleshoot this correctly (well... technically I'm remote so.... I can't look at things myself! ).
Here is some background:
- '06 Disco 3 TDv6 goes into limp mode (i.e. reduced power, suspension lowered, etc.) [This is my Dad's]
- Sometimes, just stopping and starting will "fix" the problem (i.e. clear the condition)
- Two different dealerships could not figure out what the problem is
- Sometimes the limp mode happens after 15 miles, sometimes after 100 miles (well.... Give or take! Let's say "not consistent".
- Suspension compressor is fine. (one dealership insisted this was the problem even though there was no code associated with it and suspension "felt" fine.... 1500 euros later, problem is still here..... Not going back)
- The two dealerships have reported that (one of) the turbos is whistling and will need to be replaced.
- Disco has 200K km (124K miles).
- Codes that were reported (after a long trip to the dealership driving at 30km/h at the most.... ) [Sorry, translating from French to English the code description; might not be 100% accurate! Codes were read from dealership computer]
* P0700-00 TCM gearbox system (logged at 211,552km; dealership read the codes when disco had 211,700km)
* P0087-00 PCM fuel ramp pressure too low (no mileage associated with code)
* P0196-26 PCM Range/performance of oil temperature sensor issue (no mileage associated with code)
* bunch of U and B codes that don't seem relevant
Errors flagged as not being present anymore:
* P0196-26
* P0700-00
What's interesting (to me) is the fact that neither of the dealerships seem to have brought this code up as a potential issue for the limp mode.
So..... I think the only "relevant" code is P0087-00. Before we embark in replacing the fuel pump (either low and high pressure), I wanted to get some advice from this wealth of community!
We just got an IIDTool, so, if there is anything we can do with it (live monitor, etc.) that would help the troubleshooting, this is an option.
Thoughts? Next Steps?
23rd Jul 2018 2:45 pm
MonLand
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
Few more data points
A few additional points:
- fuel filter replaced recently (and before that issue happens)
- hard acceleration does not seem to trigger the fault (i.e. driving at 160km/h for 5 mins does not create any issue)
I am thinking this is a low pressure fuel pump issue and likely an electric connector issue (I expect a fuel pump to either be dead or not dead, not a "sometimes I pump, sometimes I don't").
23rd Jul 2018 7:33 pm
MonLand
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
Any idea? Please!
25th Jul 2018 12:11 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4668
In no particular order as its 1:40 am after a long day! Brake light switch, Battery condition, water ingress to CJB, fuel filter, alternator, starter cable short to earth, general electrical fault. Not much help I know, but if you can plug in the IID, clear the faults and drive a short distance. Then read again before the primary issue has a chance to infect other systems you might whittle it down more easily.
25th Jul 2018 1:51 am
Paulpest
Member Since: 26 Jan 2017
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 39
I had similar problems and turned out to be the HPFP
25th Jul 2018 7:21 am
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10372
If you want to play, you could
clear the codes with your IID. Take for a short drive.
See what codes appear.
Drive more until fault appears, read codes again.
25th Jul 2018 9:59 am
MonLand
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
Paulpest wrote:
I had similar problems and turned out to be the HPFP
How did you diagnose it? Was this happening under load/no lad/?
25th Jul 2018 7:30 pm
MonLand
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
PROFSR G wrote:
In no particular order as its 1:40 am after a long day! Brake light switch, Battery condition, water ingress to CJB, fuel filter, alternator, starter cable short to earth, general electrical fault. Not much help I know, but if you can plug in the IID, clear the faults and drive a short distance. Then read again before the primary issue has a chance to infect other systems you might whittle it down more easily.
Thanks!
Brake light switch was replaced (after issue appeared).
Fuel filter is very recent (though.... I don't think it's a bad ideas to replace it just in case).
Battery checks out ok (and is also recent; less than 3 years old).
I'll look up that CJB issue (truck does not have any sunroof of that makes a difference)
Will also look at earth cable for starter.
For a General Electric issue.... that seems challenging to find!!!
I need to learn how to properly use that IID.... looks like there is a lot you can do with it!
25th Jul 2018 7:34 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10372
If your fuel filter is on the old type with 4 pipes, did the pipes get put on the correct way round? Did it start or get worse immediately afterwards?
25th Jul 2018 8:48 pm
hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
There is a good guide ref testing the LPFP by Robbie in the wiki
Also the oil temp sensor in the sump can cause running problems but i think it causes erratic tickover.
PS only one turbo on an 06 D3.
Andi.
PS when my LPFP was begining to fail it got harder and harder to start the engine but it can get " tired" before completly failing in my experience.
PPS have you checked brake light bulbs.
25th Jul 2018 8:57 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4668
MonLand wrote:
PROFSR G wrote:
In no particular order as its 1:40 am after a long day! Brake light switch, Battery condition, water ingress to CJB, fuel filter, alternator, starter cable short to earth, general electrical fault. Not much help I know, but if you can plug in the IID, clear the faults and drive a short distance. Then read again before the primary issue has a chance to infect other systems you might whittle it down more easily.
Thanks!
Brake light switch was replaced (after issue appeared).
Fuel filter is very recent (though.... I don't think it's a bad ideas to replace it just in case).
Battery checks out ok (and is also recent; less than 3 years old).
I'll look up that CJB issue (truck does not have any sunroof of that makes a difference)
Will also look at earth cable for starter.
For a General Electric issue.... that seems challenging to find!!!
I need to learn how to properly use that IID.... looks like there is a lot you can do with it!
Hi MonLand
I was referring to the positive battery cable to the starter which can foul. There's no starter earth cable relevant to this scenario. I would also again say to clear the faults, drive a short distance then read again! Or, clear them and just start the car for a few minutes progressively expanding idling time span til the fault returns. Fuel filter issues can easily cause these ladies to loose their nickers! Pete K's advice regarding wrong way round connections for the early type filter is unfortunately a real issue, as less diligent mechanics can easily mix up the correct connection order. The later type filter has no connection issues, but the quality of the filter can cause real nightmares. Rule No'1 of D3/4 ownership, LR oil and fuel filters ONLY.
Voltage inconsistencies at the battery will play hell and cause a stream of issues. You can turn over a Disco TDV6 quite convincingly with a battery which is not meeting the voltage requirements of its electrical systems, giving the impression the battery is fine! Anything below 12.50v first thing in the morning will invite gremlins to the party. Ideally you want to see 12.70 v or above to eliminate the battery, but make no mistake below 12.50v can and will cause her to "throw all the toys out of the pram"
So start with the battery test, if you're happy plug in IID and then start engine. Read codes and note them, then clear. Leave IID plugged in and drive a short distance, stop and read/note again. continue til you can see faults re-occur. See how that goes, and try your own instincts with the diagnostic tool, its a good way to learn, but try not to keep plugging it in and out all the time! Its better to plug in and leave it in til you're done.
26th Jul 2018 2:43 am
MonLand
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
60 km test drive results.
Ok... Test battery not done yet, but here is what I got from a test drive last night:
- started car, read codes:
* P0087-00 (28) - Low pressure in injection ramp
* U0159 - loss communication with emergency/parking brake
* U0100 - loss of/bad communication with something parking brake related
* U2023 (reported/stored from earlier) - something related to communication with something parking brake related
=> No MIL/message on dashboard
- Drove about 10 mins (~15km)
=> no MIL but new error:
* P0196 - oil sensor performance/out of range issue
Disco 3 did not get into limp mode during test drive of about 60km. Outside temperature ~26 degrees.
Will try to get the battery voltage looked at next prior to starting the day.
26th Jul 2018 2:17 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4668
The more info the better! After you do battery tests try varying the diagnostic tests, ie static tests and mobile
I had similar issues with my V8, loss of communication, temp sensor out of range etc. I changed the brake light switch and then the battery and have not had the problems come back.
Even though the car started fine, changing the battery seemed to sure it.
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
A few more data points:
- battery registers at 11.5V. Only 2 years old, but.... ordered a replacement. Can't take a chance.
- low pressure fuel seems ok (registers at 0.5 bars: ~7 psi)
- high pressure fuel pressure is reported at 983 bars when I accelerate, but fluctuates between 700 and 1000 bars at idle => That seems suspicious. Thoughts?
I attach a PDF with graphs of fuel pressure, battery voltage [that can be used to see when engine started, etc.] etc.
Also, the VIN of the vehicle seems to fall into the range for the HPFP recall.
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