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mke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 13
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Replacement Battery Query |
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I hope this is the right place to post this. Please forgive me if not.
I think I need to replace the battery on my 2010 D4 as it generally seems too sluggish for my liking when first starting the vehicle in this colder weather, and this morning, after just getting it out of the garage to wash it and generally try to clean it up a bit inside and out (about two hours - perhaps slightly longer - with the doors opening and closing a few times as necessary to clean around them, and the tailgate open for a while, but no radio on, or anything like that) there wasn't enough power to start the vehicle to put it away again when it started to rain just as I finished! I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations about which type and size of battery to use as a replacement?
Because my work is seasonal and I don't use it much during those busy times of year, my vehicle goes for quite long periods not being used, and given the drain on the battery from the various bits and pieces that can never shut down even when the vehicle is locked (key-less locking, remote pre-heater module, etc., all of which must be 'live' and waiting to detect their activating signal and thus gently draining the battery) my normal inclination would be to fit as high an amp hour battery as the holder can take, rather than another 90 amp hour one as fitted originally by Land Rover. But someone said that, whilst that would have been the thing to do with an older, less sophisticated, vehicle, with modern vehicles using so many computers and similar gizmos to run them, and smart computer controlled charging, there could, potentially, be a problem if a vastly different size battery was used, so check first before buying a larger capacity battery.
I haven't a clue about these things, but having read many topics on here and seen how helpful everyone is, I can think of no better place to ask this question and get reliable advice and information!
I look forward to the replies flooding in!
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18th Jan 2018 6:44 pm |
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Pedros
Member Since: 25 Jun 2011
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 454
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I don't know, but considering your usage it's entirely possible that the battery is good, but the vehicle isn't used enough to keep the charge topped up. Before giving up on it, I'd charge it then use it for a while, see how that goes. If the battery is past it's best, then I'm sure that someone will be along shortly to recommend one. The only advice I'd give is to buy good quality. If your usage involves long periods of inactivity and/or high predominance of short journeys, especially this time of year when you will be using lots of accessories, then it would be a good idea to invest in a trickle charger, one that is safe to leave connected for long periods.
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18th Jan 2018 9:15 pm |
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kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6660
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Re: Replacement Battery Query |
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mke wrote:I hope this is the right place to post this. Please forgive me if not.
I think I need to replace the battery on my 2010 D4 as it generally seems too sluggish for my liking when first starting the vehicle in this colder weather, and this morning, after just getting it out of the garage to wash it and generally try to clean it up a bit inside and out (about two hours - perhaps slightly longer - with the doors opening and closing a few times as necessary to clean around them, and the tailgate open for a while, but no radio on, or anything like that) there wasn't enough power to start the vehicle to put it away again when it started to rain just as I finished! I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations about which type and size of battery to use as a replacement?
Because my work is seasonal and I don't use it much during those busy times of year, my vehicle goes for quite long periods not being used, and given the drain on the battery from the various bits and pieces that can never shut down even when the vehicle is locked (key-less locking, remote pre-heater module, etc., all of which must be 'live' and waiting to detect their activating signal and thus gently draining the battery) my normal inclination would be to fit as high an amp hour battery as the holder can take, rather than another 90 amp hour one as fitted originally by Land Rover. But someone said that, whilst that would have been the thing to do with an older, less sophisticated, vehicle, with modern vehicles using so many computers and similar gizmos to run them, and smart computer controlled charging, there could, potentially, be a problem if a vastly different size battery was used, so check first before buying a larger capacity battery.
I haven't a clue about these things, but having read many topics on here and seen how helpful everyone is, I can think of no better place to ask this question and get reliable advice and information!
I look forward to the replies flooding in!
I have a Fiamm Black Titanium battery in my D3, I had an Exide in my D4. Since you’re UK based I’ve noticed that most people seem to like Tayna for some reason. The battery type you want is a 019. You want as many cold cranking amps (CCA) as possible, usually. You can verify what I wrote by going to some battery manufacturer’s or reseller’s site and enter your vehicle details.
Before doing that it might make sense to check how good/bad your current battery actually is. IDK how long you can keep a new battery charged without actually driving but 3 weeks is what I’ve done and it worked all right. This could probably be calculated/estimated if you knew the vehicles’s power draw.
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18th Jan 2018 9:33 pm |
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mke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 13
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Thanks Pedros for your time and interest.
Perhaps I should have said, before taking the car out of the garage this morning, I unplugged it from an Optimate 6 charger (connected by the excellent tow plug adaptors available from this site), and my battery was showing as fully charged on the Optimate before unplugging it and starting the engine. So I was very surprised to have drained the battery to such a low state that it wouldn't start just by starting the car twice and opening all the doors a few times in so short a time - though, I suppose each door was open for a while while cleaned around it (all that mud that gets around the rear door around the wheel arch!) and I swept it out, etc. But even so, I've never experienced a battery draining so fast. Unless the drain when unlocking the vehicle is enormous? I didn't hear the pre-heater running, so don't think it was that.
Thanks again.
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18th Jan 2018 9:45 pm |
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kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6660
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Can you measure the current from the battery with a multimeter? Are the battery cable connectors connected securely?
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18th Jan 2018 9:51 pm |
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mke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 13
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Thanks Kajtzu, I'll look up those Tayna batteries batteries you mention. As you may have seen in my reply to Pedros, I am happy to connect my vehicle to a charger when it isn't going to be used for a week or so, but actually this winter period is when I am not working and am using my car. And I'm not happy that I never quite know if it's going to start or not when I'm out somewhere. Often, if I try to use the pre-heater, it fails because the battery is too low, so I'm sure I do need a new battery. Watching the 'secret screen' the alternator seems to be at a steady 14.5/14.6 volts, so would appear to be ok?
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18th Jan 2018 10:03 pm |
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mke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 13
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I have no idea how to measure the current with a multimeter. But in any case, I can't lock the car with the bonnet open, so I can't shut it down to find out what the current drain is. Though I suppose, in the situation I had today, I need to know the current drain when the car is unlocked and doors are open, etc.
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18th Jan 2018 10:07 pm |
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kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6660
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From the sound of it the alternator is supplying power correctly, yeah.
I think you can go to a store that sells batteries and have them test (measure) the condition of your battery. Should take a few minutes and at least here it doesn’t cost a thing. If it’s bad you can be sure they’ll let you know since they want to make the sale
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18th Jan 2018 10:11 pm |
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mke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 13
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Thanks, I'll get it tested tomorrow. I'm still interested to know if it would be ok to fit (were I able to get such a thing) a 100 or 120 amp hour battery (or more), or if that wouldn't work properly with the car's computers and charging circuitry? And also is there a best type of battery to fit? I know there are different types and I don't mind paying for a good quality battery even if it is far more expensive than some available. But I would far rather not buy the wrong thing and be making a very expensive mistake!
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18th Jan 2018 10:44 pm |
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Nikki
Member Since: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 140
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I only trust CTEK chargers
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19th Jan 2018 3:10 am |
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mke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 13
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Hi kajtzu,
Had battery tested and it seems it is at about 90% - and was at first told it doesn't need replacing yet. (As all batteries gradually drop from 100%, so they would still class mine as ok for the time being.) But when I explained what happened yesterday they said perhaps the 10% drop is all important for my vehicle in this colder weather.
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19th Jan 2018 1:23 pm |
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kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6660
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You originally said you had a 90 Ah Land Rover battery, it should be more than sufficient if it is 90% condition....
When you say cold, how cold is it? How do you determine that the engine does not start? Do you still have power for lights and stereo even if the engine does not turn on? Does the engine make any sounds when you attempt to start by turning the key? Could it be that your glow plugs do not work since they’re needed when starting in colder temperatures?
https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic130145.html
All of these are ideas to narrow down the problem, I’m not very much of a diesel expert
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19th Jan 2018 3:42 pm |
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mke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 13
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Hi kajtzu,
This morning there was a frost and the temperature was about 4°C - so it feels cold by our standards in the south of England, but it's not a minus ° temperature at the moment, so possibly you'd regard that as almost 'hot' by yours! It just seems that the battery isn't holding its charge well. It normally starts the engine ok, though, as I said initially, the speed of cranking the engine when cold, even coming straight off the charger seems rather too sluggish for me to be completely happy. And the voltage showing on the 'secret screen' before turning on the ignition and starting the engine isn't as high as I would expect it to be after simply coming off the charger and unlocking the vehicle - even given that various systems will have been started up by that unlocking process. It is usually reading somewhere around 11.8v/11.9v/12v, obviously dropping considerably lower when actually turning the engine on. What is bothering me, is that I can't trust that, if I've left the vehicle unlocked whilst, say, cleaning it up a bit as yesterday, or loading it and shifting the seat pattern around to fit everything in, perhaps hitching up my caravan and doing the necessary light checks and double checking all is well before starting off on some journey, that there will be enough power left to actually start the engine. Surely, it ought to last for an hour or so whilst doing these sort of things, before being too weak to start it up? When I tried to start it yesterday, and before when it's happened, various warnings come up that, e.g. 'Special programs aren't available' and lots of warning lights flash, but pressing the start button doesn't crank the engine at all and I had to use a booster power supply to get it going.
I've been in touch with the local Land Rover dealership, and they say they think it sounds just like a new battery is needed, especially if the battery on there is the original. (He thought it probably was, because mine is a wet cell battery and for some time apparently, Land Rover Batteries have been AGM(?) ones.) The chap I spoke to's advice was not to use a higher amp hour battery than was originally fitted as he said they spend a considerable amount of time trying to sort out random fault codes on customers vehicles that seem to emanate from different size and/or makes of battery having been used as a replacement. Also, he said that the smart charging system was not set up for higher rated batteries, and to put one on could be setting up expensive problems later when, perhaps, the alternator fails, etc. He recommended simply replacing like for like, with another Land Rover battery, even though he conceded it would be more expensive than getting another make from elsewhere. But then, he would say that, wouldn't he!
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19th Jan 2018 5:37 pm |
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kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6660
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I’ve never used the hidden screen but if it really says that you’ve got 11.8 V the battery is on it’s way out.
You might want to edit your profile to include the vehicle that you have but the one you mentioned in your first message, D4 TDV6 MY10, doesn’t really need an AGM battery since it doesn’t have start/stop. It would work, though.
If you go to LR it’ll most likely say in the corner of the new battery Exide as the real manufacturer. It did on my old one. Most battery vendor configurators wouldn’t give you a “too small” or “too large” battery or the wrong type. Mine was 90 Ah, too, and I got it replaced by a 95 Ah as recommended by Fiamm (the battery vendor).
That being said there is nothing wrong with spending your hard earned cash with LR if it gives you a peace of mind. An Exide or Varta or Fiamm is just as good and might even be the same one except for the sticker on top.
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19th Jan 2018 5:55 pm |
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