Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Canberra
Posts: 209
garrycol wrote:
When ROO systems was all Toyota I would have been wary of them and their early systems were just over fuelling systems but the owner has changed to a D4 3.0 and I understand it is a proper remap - but not sure of their experiences with a 2.7.
Garry
30th Jun 2017 5:26 am
BrettKaz
Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Canberra
Posts: 209
Thanks - I would think you Oke's towing on the highveld have to be extra careful ... particularly if you have had a remap. Extra equipment is the sort of thing I tried to avoid - the D3 already has a hundred sensors. Impressive stuff though
30th Jun 2017 5:59 am
BrettKaz
Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Canberra
Posts: 209
Just testing out Sidesticks assertion that my dyno map was done in 4th gear. Yep looks correct - the relationship b/w revs and KMPH is pretty close and converges at about 100kmph (again sidesticks assertion that 4th is closest to 1:1 ratio). So in the graph attached (while not shown) you can read off revs vs kmph on the vertical axis and its pretty close.
I am sure I could have looked this up somewhere but peak torque is at about 85kmph in 4th which is 2500 revs ... and flat-ish from about 70kmph or about 2100 revs.,
Circling back to the issue - I was a bit concerned that having to travel in 5th at 2100 revs to lock the TC would push me outside the peak torque band of my mapping.
Conclusion#1: it brings me closer but still capacity to maybe change down earlier (when hitting a hill) than I would normally to put me in 2500rpm territory. Impact on EGT's to be established?
Conclusion#2 sidestep knows a lot more about this stuff than I do and also better at maths than me.
Click image to enlarge
30th Jun 2017 8:56 am
Sidestick
Member Since: 22 Apr 2012
Location: Rome
Posts: 2288
Egt is not directly related to engine torque as so as fuel economy,
think about,are you going to sweat more when you use an high torque and very long gear on your bike or when your revs are a bit faster (due to shortened gear) and you do not need full torque?
The trick is inside the graphics,
do not confuse a launch on the bench which is made on "full throttle" just to find out the torque peaks function of revs,
in daily use you will never use full throttle, so the autobox will try to up-shift as soon as it can due to fuel economy software inside his ECU, but towing or when you run uphill, it think a long before use 5th gear and it do this because the autobox oil temperature start to rise in 6th gear due modulation of the TC.
Try this, on live values on iid set:
TC
transmission temp
MAF value (grams x sec of fuel)
REVS
EGT
while running on flat at 2100 rpm it should be:
Closed
around 70°C
not sure of value but around 60 g/s
2100
300°C
then leave the cruise control on (same speed) and try to go uphill and wait until the gear automatically downshift to 5th,
You will find initially this:
Modulated
temperature rising to 85°C
much more g/s
2200/2250 due to TC modulation (slipping)
400°C due to much more fuel and throttle
after downshift:
closed
temp descending to 70°C
a g/s similar to one when on flat & in 6th
2500 steady
330°C
Note that car speed remain the same as per cruise control setting
hope this could help
enjoy- Easy-Lift suspension module 4.0
- GoodWinch 9500 lb
- Full underbody protections
- Tree/Rock sidebars
- Prospeed roofrack & ladder
- Compressor guard
- Raised Air Intake
- Driving lights (2+4)
- 50 mm Waffle boards
- Altox Heater control
- Overland Rooftop Tent
- Rear seats entertainment
- Front & Rear camera
- GVIF
- Removable tow bar
- Cubby box fridge
- BFG KO2 265/65R17
- iidTool BT
30th Jun 2017 12:13 pm
BrettKaz
Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Canberra
Posts: 209
Just to tidy up this thread - got my OBDII port extender which sits virtually flush to the car's female port so now I can't kick it. I am not flash enough to relocate it. See below the values I will be monitoring when towing:
EGT's - Max 650c - alarm set 600c
MAP - want to see 250+kPa under heavy load with my mapping (otherwise boost leak)
Torque converter position - Looking for "closed" position while cruising and under load which should keep trans oil temps around 70c
BTW I found that the TC remains 'open' until trans oil temp reaches 30 degrees and then seems to go to 'regulated' state. I had never been able to determine why my car was so sluggish in the mornings and now I know. At least that what it seems like. There was no detail in the manual on this so not sure if trans oil temp is an input to the TC mode algorithm or the oil physically acts differently (properly) at this temperature.
Having got to where I have - I assume the operating range of the pyrometer starts at 100. I haven't really given the car a thrashing or towed anything so I haven't seen anything on the sensor above 100c. I just hope it's working.
Thanks to sidestick
Last edited by BrettKaz on 10th Jul 2017 5:21 am. Edited 2 times in total
7th Jul 2017 4:43 am
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8088
BrettKaz wrote:
...............................
Why don't one of you BAS guys emigrate down here?
They don't need to, ISTR a BAS remap can be purchased and installed with an Iid tool via the Internet, have a look on the BAS website or contact Pete at BAS
Best upgrade I've done to my D3, or Bodsy's done never had any problems and I've towed over t3.5 many times.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
7th Jul 2017 7:09 am
BrettKaz
Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Canberra
Posts: 209
Yes I found out from another member that the BAS remaps can travel. Been in touch with Pete on the egr blanking and had my finger hovering over the go button (for both) and just had a P2199 fault code meaning a new IC on top of a few other maintenance things...
7th Jul 2017 9:04 am
BrettKaz
Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Canberra
Posts: 209
In an effort to finally close off this thread this is (I hope) the final update.
After fishing around my spare turbo and manifold I determined that there is no EGT sensor on non-DPF models. While the IID tool shows a value (100 degrees) this is bogus.
While I had my downpipe off I installed a k-type probe as close as possible to the turbo see below. This was a weld on 1/8th BSP fitting. I took it to an exhaust place because I am a crap welder. The guy used TIG which I understand is standard for exhaust welding.
I got the sensor and readout for AUD100 which is about 60 GBPesos and it was a Japanese brand. I wired it into a cigarette plug because that's as far as my wiring knowledge goes. The K sensors ranges from 0-1200 degrees and when I tested it it was accurate to the degree with my digital thermometer at room temperature... astonishing!
I brought the wiring thru to the lower glovebox (I had body off) and will pack it all up and leave it in the glovebox when not towing. Mounted the readout on velcro and mounted in dial (tacho/speed) recess.
Everything I have read suggests the sensor should be mounted pre-turbo and can be as much as 200 degrees out if mounted post turbo (although apparently this gap diminishes with higher engine revs). Spoke to a trucker (1000+hp Kenworth) and diesel mechanic and he mounts his post turbo although his truck runs at its hottest at about 380c degrees which is nothing. I got my D3 up to 500c degrees towing a 3t caravan and had to try pretty hard (mapped). Pistons melt at 720c.
I conclude that the D3 doesn't have too much of an issue with EGT's provided boost is maintained a proper levels - leaking hoses greatly increase EGT's. I now drive higher in the engine rev range (change down much earlier) in order to lock the TC, reduce EGT's and remain longer in peak torque range.
I have found that TC locks out at approx (dependent on oil temperature):
6th 1700
5th 2100
when downshifting
4th 2500
3rd 2700
2nd 2900
I wouldn't suggest everybody runs out to buy a EGT gauge but if you are towing you should hook up your IID and look at the TC lock-up and oil temps and adjust your driving. Get a baseline on your MAP and make sure you are hitting those numbers when towing - I make sure I can hit 250kPa then everything is in good nick.
The most I have run in terms of oil temps is 92c.... normal is about 83c with my van and unloaded city stop start driving. Highway unladen about 60 (below). Mechanic thinks 110 is too much - gearbox specialist that knows the ZF26 reckons he has seen 130c (that must be a pretty stuffed TC or very low oil level).
Having been bullied by the forum members I am currently switching over to BAS mapping ... just in case
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never had any problems and I've towed over t3.5 many times.
