Member Since: 03 Oct 2014
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So we have made our opening offer in EU citizens rights in the UK and there is been plenty of domestic criticism not so much EU, but I haven't seen anything about what the EU are offering GB citizens, have i missed it?==================================
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23rd Jun 2017 7:34 pm
Riccardo
Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
Posts: 4123
In the EU documents made available a while ago (it was posted also the link here I think) it does not make a difference between EU citizen in UK and viceversa as they both should have same rights.
It outlines what should be guaranteed to both and it is pretty detailed
There are criticisms also in EU but still good that finally there is something real to start fromIt takes all sorts (to make a world).
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23rd Jun 2017 7:55 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13100
It's entirely obvious that the question about EU / UK expat rights is entirely impossible. EU wants ECJ to hold sway over EU expats when they know full well that the UK Govt. won't agree to it. UK Govt knows full well that the EU will insist on ECJ or no deal. So unless someone U-turns totally, they are at a total impasse.
And this is a relatively easy part of the negotiations. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
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23rd Jun 2017 8:21 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5095
Then no deal it is.
I think it is complete anathema to have 2 parties to an agreement with one party's court deciding cases relating to both.
If the EU doesn't relent on it then it's clear they don't actually want a deal.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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OK the citizens of the EC.....all 28 states currently have & "enjoy".....etc etc
When Brexit occurs - those not "from" the U.K. Originally will or should have options (currently being discussed)
To me 4 categories:.
A) U.K. Citizens born here, U.K. Passport. Actually reside here UK.on a permanent basis.
B) U.K. Citizens born here, U.K. Passport. Live in the EC.....moved to Spain, France etc.
C) EC. Citizens not born here, EC passport. Live in the U.K..recently moved or relocated here for whatever reason or "benefit".......(not "benefits")
D) EC Citizens not U.K. Born.....don't live in the U.K.....thosecwho may seek to come here - currently they can without restriction.
OK Brexit occurs....those EC citizens here now elect to stay....they came also move freely using their EC passports. I don't want those who've moved here to be at a disadvantage, equally I don't want them to have a "super status"
Question:..EC passport holders...should they or will they have more "rights" as us ?
....but am I right in thinking that if they hold an EC passport, reside in the UK & presumably want to move back & forth "without let or hindrance" they have the same as right now.
Question:..How will we UK people be allowed to move in the EC ?
Us" U.K. Passport holders who live here in the U.K. predominantly.....are we going to have the same freedom of movement ? If the answer to that is "no"....why should we be disadvantaged ?
Question:..will "Brits" abroad get the same rights as EC passport holders ? or something less...if not why not ?
Question: are we "UK" folk going to be at some form of disadvantage compared to the rest of the EC....if so whyBREXIT - done properly.
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23rd Jun 2017 10:27 pm
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23rd Jun 2017 10:52 pm
Riccardo
Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
Posts: 4123
To be fair the point is that a year on and negotiation have finally just started so only now we are starting to see discussions on real proposals
Quote:
Reality Check: What has happened since the Brexit vote?
The claim: £350m a week going to the EU that could go to the NHS
The verdict: The famous £350 million-a-week slogan daubed on the side of a Vote Leave bus has been debunked many times. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. The UK didn't send £350m a week to the EU because the rebate was deducted before any money was sent, and there's no sign that such a sum will be plucked from a magic money tree to be sent to the NHS when we leave.
Quote:
The claim: Another prominent claim from the leave campaign in the run-up to the referendum last year was that Turkey was on the verge of joining the EU, and the UK couldn't do anything to stop it.
The verdict: Again, not true then and not true now.
Quote:
The claim: There were many warnings of dire economic consequences from the remain side during the referendum campaign.
The verdict: A Treasury analysis that a leave vote would tip the UK into recession and cause an "immediate and profound" economic shock has proven to be unfounded.
Quote:
The claim: Another economic argument, used this time by the leave campaign, was that the UK would be well advised to leave an economic union that was in terminal decline.
The verdict: In fact the latest projections from the OECD predict that the UK economy will grow by 1.6% this year and 1% next year, while the euro area will grow by 1.8% in both 2017 and 2018.
It takes all sorts (to make a world).
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24th Jun 2017 7:25 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Moo wrote:
Oh dear...
Is that a request not to ask difficult questions about this shambles in order to remain patriotic ? ...when the alternative is this crap like this:
Click image to enlarge
24th Jun 2017 7:56 am
Riccardo
Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
Posts: 4123
RRSTDV8 wrote:
It's entirely obvious that the question about EU / UK expat rights is entirely impossible. EU wants ECJ to hold sway over EU expats when they know full well that the UK Govt. won't agree to it. UK Govt knows full well that the EU will insist on ECJ or no deal. So unless someone U-turns totally, they are at a total impasse.
And this is a relatively easy part of the negotiations.
Actually there might be some level of acceptance from UK to have an international court involved
Quote:
She also suggested that while rights would be enforced by British courts, they could also be enshrined in international law if the agreement was included in the final treaty of withdrawal.
Maybe not the RCJ but this might allow allow EU citizens to appeal for arbitration to an international body like the international court of justice in The Hague, which enforces international treaties.
Lets see the full proposal on mondayIt takes all sorts (to make a world).
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24th Jun 2017 8:27 am
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23366
One year on and it still feels to me that's it's no less of a cluster***k.
At least it's less than two years to go before the NHS can start benefitting from the spare money that the government will be awash with once we're out. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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24th Jun 2017 10:28 am
sean 471
Member Since: 26 Apr 2011
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2990
It's hard to believe its nearly one year on. Well at least lots of progress on the biggest thing to affect the country has been made.
24th Jun 2017 12:05 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5095
Riccardo wrote:
Quote:
The claim: £350m a week going to the EU that could go to the NHS
The verdict: The famous £350 million-a-week slogan daubed on the side of a Vote Leave bus has been debunked many times. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. The UK didn't send £350m a week to the EU because the rebate was deducted before any money was sent, and there's no sign that such a sum will be plucked from a magic money tree to be sent to the NHS when we leave.
I fear Chris Morris has spent rather too long in Brussels to be entirely objective, especially for a 'reality check' feature.
The 'magic money tree' is mostly covered by the actual cash contribution.
If you assume the unfunded liabilities the EU claims were accrued pro rata to our overall contributions then the 'cost' of £350m a week may well be an underestimate.
He also neglects to mention that many/most of the economic dread forecasts were based on the vote going for Brexit, rather than the triggering and/or outcome of Article 50. In particular the 'punishment budget' was supposed to be immediate on the vote being for Leave.
I don't know what place the most pessimistic economic forecasts have in a reality check article either, given the lamentable inability of the OECD to correctly assess the situation last year?Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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24th Jun 2017 12:45 pm
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
As regards EU and Brits living in each other's country, TM has been very fair, particularly as there is three times the amount of EU nationals living here compared to Brits in the EU.
The EU disagrees and wants their cake and to eat it, then call their bluff and actually mean it rather than threaten it.
This needs cleared up once and for all and in double quick time.
Which we are told isn't "available" when (not if) we leave.
We can't have a "pick & mix" either....
However the movement of people is a two way street
What applies to "them" also applies to "us"
What puzzles me though is those EC passport holding nationals who've come to the land of "milk & honey", don't want to "go back" (which says something ?) will no doubt have children (?)
What status will they qualify for:
EC passport with same rights as parents ?......presumably residence in U.K. & EC.....which could mean the population of EC settlers will grow.
A UK passport with UK residency & EC residency.
Either makes them an "elite" with more rights than a U.K. Paspport holder & presumably a rank & file ordinary EC person. Unless that is all EC passport holders are elevated to that status.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
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24th Jun 2017 6:21 pm
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
I just don't see the problem. We are exiting the EU, therefore what once was allowed, won't be.
No doubt we will have a new immigration policy, be it something along the lines of Australia, Canada etc. With their occupation, points system etc.
The only grey area is EU nationals already in this country that wouldn't qualify under a new system. If the EU doesn't want to play ball on whatever level and let Brits remain in their country, then consideration would have to be given to repatriating this group of people.
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) 
Oh dear...
...when the alternative is this crap like this:
