The simple answer on the measurement system is to let people use what they want. Private contracts can be as effectively enforced in both metric and imperial, or indeed any system that should be seen fit for purpose by those involved, so there is no need for either to be mandated from above.
But the convention in common use is just for a number to written as a dimension against an attribute say on a drawing.
The only clue is usually some statement "all dimensions in metres"....I'm ok with this & seems to be the norm in all you see & get. But can lead to embarrassing, costly, inconvenient mistakes....I've seen some really daft things.
North America being sort of split (Canada - metric.....USA - inches) is the one big exception.
Inch measurements are OK until you get to sub inch units.
Decimal divisions to two, three of even four decimal places...ok to measure & comprehend
Fractional divisions need more thought & care....if you've got to work on machinery from the US of A they still have say pipe connections & threads in American inch dimensions. "10/32"nds", is one that I just love.
Then actual screw threads....UNC, UNF, American fine, American course, NPT,
These never aligned with anything UK pre decimalisation....Whitworth, (whit), BA, BSF.
Then there are BSP - British Standard Pipe Threads...not interchangeable with US of A ones despite being similar diameter wise but usually 1 thread per inch different.
Strangely BSP threads are still there & used in the EC & all,over the world...your domestic washing machine & garden hose pipe is 3/4" BSP.
Yes - the "continent" did have metric pipe threads....but the BSP system is there, abundant & in use
There was GAZ threads that I have a "thread file" repair tool I bought way back but have never used it as I have never seen one in use. I mistakingly thought this was for "GAZ" cylinders.....aka Bluet...Camping GAZ.
Where does it all get written up ?
I have successive years versions of the institute of mechanical enigeers handbook (the bible) with over 1000 pages with all sorts of reference stuff. We encounter some obscure piece of machinery here at work & are curious to the fasteners....out comes the digital vernier (will it be metric nominal or imperial....then the thread pitch ?)
We get wired things like stone cutting machinery tooling that have fixings using BSP threads.....from Italian mainstream tooling companies. We get resurrected machines dredged up out of sites that have mixtures of a few things...whitworth bolts, BA electrical connections, BSP pipe fittings.....then because it was an export machine the tooling is metric...but metric fine.
What a voyage of discovery...?
I grew up in feet & inches & in precision machine tools where "thous" actuall meant something & tenths of thous were a bit theoretical but abundantly there when hand scraping machine tool slideways (another lost art)....as you did back then.
Technical exams in a combination of imperial with horse power, pounds, gallons & tons...not Tonnes
With exams that use the MKS system too.
My university maths & science in technology all metric....as all UK children are taught in schools.
If you want a laugh ask younger folk about the English pound before decimal.....20 shillings, half crowns, two shilling pieces, halfpennys & farthings....& guinees.
Write £3..11..6 1/2d...
Yes we did use & understand this.BREXIT - done properly.
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15th Apr 2017 11:38 am
DG Site Moderator
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Metric will naturally prevail ....there is no question 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
15th Apr 2017 11:59 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
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RRSTDV8 wrote:
Red Merle wrote:
Actually, the decimal system is flawed in some important respects. Try dividing 10 by 3, or 4, then try the same thing with base 12, or base 16, or even base 32, as they appears in the imperial system.
Try dividing 12, 16 or 32 by 5 then try the same thing with 10...
If you were thinking properly duodecimally, then you'd have little interest in the number 5, or 10. You be thinking in 6's and "12's".
15th Apr 2017 12:07 pm
john watson
Member Since: 10 Nov 2011
Location: lanark
Posts: 956
As regards imperial v USA standards BSW and UNC were identical up to 1/2" then it was all change.
Remember being asked by a old gaffer just how big was a metric inch. Same as an imperial inch I suppose.
15th Apr 2017 12:58 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
I haven't upgraded my old, imperial, adjustable spanner yet, so I should be okay if it all goes back again...
Actually, the decimal system is flawed in some important respects. Try dividing 10 by 3, or 4, then try the same thing with base 12, or base 16, or even base 32, as they appears in the imperial system.
Try dividing 12, 16 or 32 by 5 then try the same thing with 10...
If you were thinking properly duodecimally, then you'd have little interest in the number 5, or 10. You be thinking in 6's and "12's".
Exactly - the use of the decimal system has shaped our behaviour. Our common use of 5 is because it's convenient to do so with the decimal system, rather than that we use the decimal system because we want to use 5.
The beauty of the duodecimal system is the divisibility by four factors (2, 3, 4 & 6) rather than two (2 & 5) regardless of which those factors are. We would use 5 much less and often switch to 4 or 6 instead were we using duodecimal. There'd be no hassle of 3.333333 and 6.666666 to deal with; a third of 10 would be 4. 8 and 9 are neater too because they represent 1 1/2 and 1 1/3 - meaning 1.6 and 1.4. Once familiar with the decimal number system, it looks awkward, very awkward, but had it evolved as the prevailing system, we would almost certainly look upon the decimal system the same way. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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15th Apr 2017 1:52 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
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Beautifully explained!
15th Apr 2017 1:56 pm
Stuff
Member Since: 04 Sep 2015
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Nice article by the FT, not really about Brexit but a perspective from which to view Brexit, with some references to other pieces that you can easily find with Google (the Bank for International Settlements' papers are always very good):
(The FT allows non-subscribers to read a few selected pages before the paywall kicks in. If you hit the paywall, consider subscribing; it's one of the better newspapers.)MY91 110 CSW, so long ago I can barely remember it - sold
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16th Apr 2017 8:32 am
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23361
More banter from Huff:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brex...2ff8619ddb2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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17th Apr 2017 7:15 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
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I visited Shanghai last week. Flying into the airport over this vast industrial landscape made me really think how are we going to be able to compete with it. It reminded me how small and insignificant the UK is on the global stage. We are so deluded about how we will succeed, but we're on the road now so we have to try and make the best of it.
Having seen the press outside the UK and listened to those in the EU about our bullish, wind the EU up approach, does anyone really believe that Boris, Davis and Fox are the best people for delivering it?
What worries me is that Putin, Trump and Jiang are getting what they want, a weaker divided Europe that is no longer a cohesive foil to their antics. May's trip to India was a failure and we are now buddying up again to the oppressive governments of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and the middle east. Is this really the future?New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
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17th Apr 2017 7:34 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
As TM says, she's "optimistic" about the outcome. I'd agree with her there, though "deluded" might be more appropriate (thanks Moo).
Unfortunately, what the country really needs is a realist. And a Foreign Secretary that isn't a baffoon.
17th Apr 2017 7:48 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23361
Moo wrote:
What worries me is that Putin, Trump and Jiang are getting what they want, a weaker divided Europe that is no longer a cohesive foil to their antics.
I think you're right there, certainly for Putin.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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17th Apr 2017 8:16 pm
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This to me is one of the principle issues ...we are weakened, Europe is weakened .....the calculating eyes of those looking in are wide and emboldened.21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
17th Apr 2017 8:59 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13096
Moo wrote:
Having seen the press outside the UK and listened to those in the EU about our bullish, wind the EU up approach, does anyone really believe that Boris, Davis and Fox are the best people for delivering it?
What worries me is that Putin, Trump and Jiang are getting what they want, a weaker divided Europe that is no longer a cohesive foil to their antics. May's trip to India was a failure and we are now buddying up again to the oppressive governments of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and the middle east. Is this really the future?
Interestingly, the approach being taken by HMG seems to be pulling the EU together. Various politicians and diplomats have been winging around Europe trying to get everyone to agree to trade and divorce talks at the same time. The result? Divorce first, trade second. The EU is speaking with one voice at the moment. The result will almost certainly be a £60bn bill and a less-than-membership grade trade deal. So that's worse than we are now then. Yay! Joining forces with the nasty men in the Middle East isn't going to be a long term plan to success.
Putin is playing a long game and playing it very well. Trump's an idiot having his strings pulled by some powerful people in his back room group. As for competing with China. We can't. Not a hope in hell's chance.
Our one chance, I think, is to turn back to the Commonwealth and try to use what little we have left to improve the lot of others. This is about investing in them so that might return the favour in future. It has to be done on the basis of a group of equals, however. If the Foreign and Commonwealth Office go in there with the usual condescending crap the UK likes to give "developing nations", we'll get spit in our eyes.
Dropping Trident/it's replacement and using the money elsewhere would be a good idea. No need to be sat at the top table when you can't afford the tab.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
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17th Apr 2017 9:00 pm
sean 471
Member Since: 26 Apr 2011
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2990
As TM says though 'the country is now coming together'
Not seen it so divided since the 80s
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