Member Since: 31 Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Posts: 916
Re: Engine missions - Should this be Compulsory Reading?
OK, for a long time now I have thought about the D3's EGR system and the practice of blanking. This is a subject that has been covered many times on disco3.co.uk and I wondered the implications of tinkering with it.
Today, as my wife's Alfa is requiring replacement of one or more of the four oxygen sensors I was browsing an Australian supplier's site. Good news, the parts were about half the price of the genuine Alfa items but the more interesting thing was a link to the following site. (Nothing to do with the Alfa.)
Other forum members thoughts and comments are invited.LeighW
The old girl is on her third engine...
* first ran a bearing (design failure in original engine)
* second had a failure of the water outlet on top of the engine (pls check yours)
20th Mar 2017 1:00 pm
comedyharvey
Member Since: 04 Jul 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1727
For me it was nothing to do with any promises of improving performance or mpg.
Having my EGRs blanked and the engine remapped was purely as a precaution against a future, and costly, failure. They failed once and were replaced under warranty. I wasn't going to be paying myself a second time.
If the EGRs were reliable, or the cost of replacement was low, I wouldn't have bothered.
.Arthur.
Comedy was a horse, Harvey a dog, both sadly gone. Thought I was choosing a password!
Currently;
Discovery 3 HSE 2009
101" Fwd. Control 1976
Nuffield 10/90 Tractor (10/60 with 6 cylinder conversion) 1964
Of the things on that list, EGRs improve one - NOx - and make the others worse. It's also easy to see each type of emission as of equal importance but they are not. Particulate matter, soot, poses the greatest immediate risk of those, and also happens to be vastly improved by EGR blanking. The situation is portrayed as PM vs NOx, but by WHO figures, IIRC over 85% of the cases concerned were of PM related illnesses (e.g. stroke, heart disease) not NOx (bronchitis etc.). Given the D3 has no DPF, I not only feel that EGR blanking is justified by other factors, but that the environmental argument is in favour also.
Interestingly, they point out this...
Quote:
People who sell stuff related to modifying or bypassing emission controls are trying to make money. They have a conflict of interest. They are not a source of accurate information.
...but make no mention that this works the other way too. Indeed, even emissions regulations themselves can be (and have been) hi-jacked by lobbyists in the past to disadvantage competitors.
Quote:
Initially the EGR system would have been treated like an add on device to meet emission standards. With time it has become integrated into the engine’s design. Engine design has been developed with EGR as an integrated part of the engine and the system as a whole has been optimised with the EGR being part of the design. This means that modifying the EGR throws that optimisation out the window.
This is mostly tosh. If you have a DPF, yes, but it certainly doesn't apply to the D3 without one. The valves are supposed to be closed under load anyway after all.
Quote:
Here are my oil analysis results from my 2007 Diesel Toyota Hilux.
Pretty sure a test of one vehicle is far from conclusive.
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Some people post photos up on the internet of EGR valves and air intakes / manifolds with lots of soot accumulation. They use this to support their position that restricting the EGR valve is a good idea. Are people really that stupid?
Oh, I see. Next time in Halfords I'll remember to buy a pack of sooty, black gunge to put in the engine, because clearly I'm an idiot for questioning the merits of it.
Quote:
The science behind vehicle emissions and engine design is mature, well established and generally accepted. If someone is claiming environmental benefits from modifying or disabling emission controls, you need to immediately run away! They’re desperate to validate their position and are taking an extreme view to do it. It’s not even worth engaging in a discussion with such a ridiculous view.
Ever been driving behind an old truck and smelt that toxic exhaust? The emissions are real. Your nose proves it. The negative effects on health are real. Emission levels high enough to see it and smell it I’d suggest are pretty bloody bad for you even on short exposure. Much lower concentrations will still accumulate to significant health effects if the exposure is long term. Is it fair to pump that crap into the lungs of the guy behind you?
Yep. Run to your safe space quickly! Don't make your own judgement will you? You mustn't listen to anyone who contradicts your view; they're all evil nutters spreading fake news.
I'm starting to smell an eco-snowflake type with an agendum to push...in fact, my nose proves it! Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
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Several Discovery 300 TDis
20th Mar 2017 2:28 pm
caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
Quote
How To Really Improve Performance, Economy and Longevity
To improve performance you need to dump more fuel into the engine. You’ll suffer poorer fuel economy, reduced engine life and increased emissions. If you have a diesel one way of getting more power is by using a diesel performance chip.
Typical Neanderthal jap crap owner. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
21st Mar 2017 6:21 pm
caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
“Outback Joe” is a dummy who is lost in the bush – literally – and his “rescuers” are UAV (unmanned aerial vehicle) teams from around the world.
http://southburnett.com.au/news2/2014/08/w...tback-joe/“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
21st Mar 2017 6:24 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
I think some of what he has written is interesting, like all things you have to read the whole story.
I also thinks hes right about modern engines being designed around the emissions control systems and not the other way around as it was in the early days of egr.
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Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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