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Engine failures
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monty1
 


Member Since: 08 Feb 2016
Location: middlesbrough
Posts: 316

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3
Engine failures

http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/land-ro...ne-1925479
  
Post #17743075th Feb 2017 8:06 am
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Discomadness
 


Member Since: 19 Jan 2015
Location: Caerphilly
Posts: 2256

Wales 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

I'm sure there are a few people who would like to see that "list of engine numbers that are affected"
 Jarrod

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Post #17743195th Feb 2017 8:32 am
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20713

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

And even then, it's not even exclusive, as there are 15/16MY engines still failing
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Post #17743225th Feb 2017 8:40 am
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Robbie
 


Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Baltic BlueDiscovery 4

From the article:

Quote:
Land Rover Discovery models with V6 diesel engines made before 2012 may have a fatal flaw that causes crankshaft main bearings to fail.
Pretoria - Crankshaft bearing failures in Land Rover V6 diesel engines produced before 2012 has led to warnings to owners of such vehicles to take precautionary action.

Land Rover Discovery owner Margot Birbeck has laid a complaint with the Motor Industry Ombudsman after a specific crankshaft bearing in her vehicle’s engine failed, causing the engine to seize.

Birbeck claimed that she had discovered that “hundreds of Land Rover engines” were failing as a result of the fault, which was ascribed to the incorrect location of the main bearing shells during assembly, or through rotation of the shells during normal use.

Models impacted included the Discovery 3 and 4, Range Rover and Range Rover Sport, Birbeck said. This was confirmed by Jaguar Land Rover South Africa.

“The cause of these engine failures is a known and published manufacturer fault related to the crankshaft bearing,” Birbeck wrote.

The problem was published in a so-called TOPix report, a technical report in which Land Rover dealers are advised about technical problems.

“The report, however, downplays the extent of the problem, misrepresents the expected occurrence and grossly overestimates Land Rover’s recovery plan,” Birbeck claimed.

“The report was published in May 2014, but was certainly not communicated to loyal Landy owners or to prospective buyers. In fact, Land Rover has failed in every way to take responsibility for the issue.

SUDDEN FAILURE

“Numerous preventative measures could have been implemented with regards to oil and services on affected vehicles (Land Rover has a list of all engine numbers and know exactly who has and will be affected). Better still, these vehicles should have been recalled as other manufacturers have been held to do in the past.

“The car owner will experience the problem with no warnings and by a sudden engine failure with probably less than 30 seconds to pull off the road. The vehicle will also have to be towed away.”

Birbeck said the next shock, after the initial breakdown and towing costs, would be the repair bill. The quote given to her for the repair of her 2008 Discovery 3, with 132 000km on the clock, amounted to R260 000.

“Land Rover’s lack of action and intentional disregard for its customers is appalling. Today, companies have a social and ethical responsibility. If other motor industry companies such as Volkswagen and Toyota are held accountable why shouldn’t high-end brands such as Land Rover?”

Land Rover South Africa said it was aware of the issue experienced by Birbeck.

Spokeswoman Nicola Clarke sas: “Customer safety and satisfaction is our number one priority, so it is unfortunate when instances such as this affect owners of Land Rover vehicles.

“The issue affects only 1.3 percent of Land Rover engines sold in South Africa over the past 10 years,” she said.

“Changes have been made at a production level and all new engines manufactured since 2012 use a new bearing design. Dealers have been briefed on the procedure for any engine that experiences this issue.

“While it’s not possible to establish whether an engine is susceptible, the cause was identified – as detailed in the TOPIx report.”

TRANSPARENT PROCESS

TOPIx reports were communications intended to aid the technical community with information and diagnostic process, as well as helping dealerships manage the expectations of customers who are affected, Clarke said.

These reports were openly published and available to third-party repairers or any individual who requested access.

“This is a transparent process that we fully support,” Clarke said.

Clarke claimed that Jaguar Land Rover South Africa had “gone to great lengths” to help customers.

“Vehicles that are under warranty will be repaired free of charge, as part of the comprehensive factory warranty. For vehicles affected outside of the warranty period we have offered customers goodwill assistance.”

Clarke said Birbeck’s vehicle was purchased as a used vehicle, from a non-approved retailer that has no affiliation with Jaguar Land Rover South Africa.

Additionally, this vehicle was last serviced within the Jaguar Land Rover retail network at 77 000km.

“We cannot comment on the service history from this point up until 133 000km when the incident occurred," Clarke said.

“Despite this, goodwill assistance was offered to Birbeck, where one-third of the parts cost would be covered. Unfortunately this offer was rejected, as the customer insisted on financial reparations as well as the opportunity to repair the vehicle at an unauthorised repairer.”

Clarke said the company’s customer service director was in contact with those who experienced this problem.

“The matter has been referred to the Motor Industry Ombudsman. Jaguar Land Rover South Africa has responded accordingly.”


The PR spin of "1.3%" is interesting. Once you delete all the vehicles without the TDV6 engine and then delete all the TDV6 equipped vehicles produced either before and after the period in question, the actual percentage of failures in the at-risk group looks pretty high.

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Post #17743235th Feb 2017 8:40 am
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Robert SausageTrousers
 


Member Since: 09 Aug 2015
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 466

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 4

An interesting read Smile
  
Post #17743295th Feb 2017 8:52 am
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Ocsid
 


Member Since: 29 Nov 2005
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 255

England 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Indus SilverDiscovery 4

Disco_Mikey wrote:
And even then, it's not even exclusive, as there are 15/16MY engines still failing


Are these 15/16MY failures also with the same crank bearings, post the implementation of the quoted "new design"? IE, the new design is also flawed?
  
Post #17743305th Feb 2017 8:55 am
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20713

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

http://disco3.co.uk/forum/topic155504.html
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Post #17743365th Feb 2017 9:08 am
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petersw
 


Member Since: 17 Nov 2012
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1135

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Orkney GreyDiscovery 4

Link to details of Discovery 5 (2nd generation) engine

Courtesy of sportcoupe

http://www.blackgto.com/TDV6_3.0_Diesel.pdf
 Peter  
Post #17743385th Feb 2017 9:12 am
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Gareth
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Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26683

United Kingdom 

That's an interesting read! No mention of so called tabbed MB shells Confused
  
Post #17743565th Feb 2017 10:15 am
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DG
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Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50930

Wales 

That article has been featured in a few of crank threads on here already.

Whats more interesting is that there is no outcome reported by Birbeck in relation to the ombudsmans decision, her last comment was in 2015:

Quote:
Margot Birbeck
‏@MargotSA 2:41 PM - 18 Oct 2015

@LandyChirps thank you! The MIOSA takes time but I'm not giving up.


In addition, reading up on the SA ombudsman's case histories, I have a feeling that they might not find in her favour because she was out of warranty with no dealer history after 77Kkm and she didn't want the subsequent terms offered.

It's fairly clear that if you are out of warranty your only fallback is a LRFSH and even then that's no guarantee of a full contribution.
 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021  
Post #17743645th Feb 2017 10:44 am
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20713

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

An initial 30% seems to be the normal contribution

A quick peruse through the threads with oil pump failures still gives no confidence in LR's "goodwill" despite FLRSH Rolling Eyes
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Post #17743735th Feb 2017 10:56 am
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Dusty
 


Member Since: 23 Sep 2013
Location: London
Posts: 1022

United Kingdom 2015 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

Is there any news on what caused Wiggs failure?

If that also proves to be the dreaded crank failure that pretty much condemns every D4 owner to a lifetime of 'what if's' Even if it is a small percentage.

At least with the 2007 D3's you could effect a cure with a new oil pump!!
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Post #17743755th Feb 2017 11:05 am
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20713

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

Other than bottom end, I don't think we will find out as the engine goes back to JLR for dissection
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Post #17744025th Feb 2017 11:59 am
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DSL
Keeper of the wheelie bin 


Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72741

Ukraine 

Are they going to dissect? They'll have thousands and thousands of them to do, plus if they have plausible deniability if they just send them to be scrapped rather than figuring out the problem.
   
Post #17744045th Feb 2017 12:01 pm
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DG
Site Moderator 


Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50930

Wales 

This list of recent payouts from Warrantywise is interesting although its not specific on vehicle age nor what period this covers ...select LR in the dropdown

http://www.warrantywise.co.uk/authorised-repairs/

Also interesting to compare other marque repair costs
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Post #17744075th Feb 2017 12:05 pm
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