Member Since: 11 Jan 2017
Location: Tyne & Wear
Posts: 6
2.7TDV6 Engine failure
Hi all,
New member here. I don't own a Disco yet but used to have a Defender 90 300tdi.
I'm looking to buy a Disco 3 but am somewhat concerned at the amount of engine and transmission failures reported. Having owned 4x4 Toyotas for many years I'm not used to catastrophic failures!
Is the piece that breaks off the front of the engine (the bit that carries the belt tensioner) actually the oil pump housing? Many people have said that the oil pump should be changed when changing the belts? Does this issue affect only 07 onwards?
Im looking at probably an 05/06 HSE model. Also any opinions on manual versus auto box? reliability etc'
Thanks in advance!
David
12th Jan 2017 8:30 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10335
Don't forget crankshaft failures.
If you like jap cars, stick to um.
12th Jan 2017 9:01 pm
Compusmentis
Member Since: 18 Feb 2016
Location: Effingham
Posts: 237
Depends what mileage you are looking at.
If you buy an auto that is on its original gearbox, budget £3k for a replacement. If you buy a manual, budget for a new clutch and flywheel.
They go through a mid-life crisis at 80-100,000 miles, where wheel bearings, propshafts, diffs etc will quite likely fail. Then at 105,000 you have the engine belts to change. Not a bad diy job, but for the sake of a few hundred pounds, change the oil pump too, irrespective of model year. You are correct that the housing fails where the belt tensioner is mounted.
Also read up on air compressor failures, alternator failures, Electronic Parking Brake (EPB) failures etc.etc.
D3's are lovely, and possibly the most capable all-rounder ever made, but if you want a low-maintenance car, stick with your Toyotas New gearbox & TC, 3 x front wheel bearings, belts changed, new oil pump, new battery, new rear prop, new front prop, new front diff, front arb refurbed, front cv boot kit, egr blank and BAS software patch, full rear suspension / drivelive rebuild, new front arms, LED trailer light fix, split charge.
Never had a 107, 90 or 127, but have had most of the rest!
12th Jan 2017 9:16 pm
Bugsy1930
Member Since: 11 Jan 2017
Location: Tyne & Wear
Posts: 6
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the replies. I was going to buy a RR Sport a while back but the problems and associated costs put me off. My Old 'cruiser has nearly 160k on it and is about 18 y/old. I had to replace original brake pipes 2014, front calipers and all discs and pads last year and also a clutch master cylinder just before christmas!
Ive always loved the look of Disco 3's though and suspect I need to get them out of my system which probably means certain bankruptcy! lol
Is the oil pump the same housing that the timing belt tensioner bolts to? IE the front cover /casing that bolts to the block?
I suspect a clutch and flywheel would be considerably less than an auto box rebuild and I would prefer a manual but have never seen a manual HSE.
The particular car I'm looking at is a 2005 HSE (auto) with 119000miles and service history.
Thanks,David
12th Jan 2017 10:05 pm
DN D3 Decade
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: W.London.
Posts: 2289
Yes, the oil pump housing is the component that the cam belt tensioner bolts to ( area top left).This shows the stronger newer type (now fitted to my D3),and my old one, a late 2005 (MY '06)... HSE's in manual form were a specific order (from memory), very rare. D3 owned from new, P017 brake recall, BAS FBHIC, new FBH, LR013487 oil pump, new water pump. RRS front lower suspension arms. New suspension compressor/ relay. New Denso alternator. CuNifer rear brake pipes. New GKN rear propshaft. New HPFP belt & tensioner. New A/C Condenser.NO WARRANTY for many many years.
Last edited by DN on 18th Jan 2017 6:11 pm. Edited 2 times in total
12th Jan 2017 10:30 pm
trailhound
Member Since: 27 Aug 2015
Location: Colchester
Posts: 697
Just when I thought I was getting on top of my 05 (belts done) is this something else to worry about
12th Jan 2017 10:36 pm
Bugsy1930
Member Since: 11 Jan 2017
Location: Tyne & Wear
Posts: 6
Hi DN,
That makes mores sense now. So In effect, spend a few hundred quid doing the pump and belts and you likely saving yourself several thousands!
Regarding a manual HSE, I haven't seen any advertised, certainly not within 100miles of me. lol
Thanks,
12th Jan 2017 10:41 pm
DN D3 Decade
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: W.London.
Posts: 2289
@ trailhound, these have been known to fracture on '05 and '06 vehicles (ask Disco_Mikey )...although I think the material is marginally stronger and yet another different p/no to the particularly weak '07 and '08 models. I chose to do mine with that in mind, and a slightly quicker oil pressure build up on starting, which may help, but still doesn't eradicate the crankshaft / bearing problems. D3 owned from new, P017 brake recall, BAS FBHIC, new FBH, LR013487 oil pump, new water pump. RRS front lower suspension arms. New suspension compressor/ relay. New Denso alternator. CuNifer rear brake pipes. New GKN rear propshaft. New HPFP belt & tensioner. New A/C Condenser.NO WARRANTY for many many years.
Last edited by DN on 12th Jan 2017 11:48 pm. Edited 2 times in total
12th Jan 2017 10:44 pm
Bugsy1930
Member Since: 11 Jan 2017
Location: Tyne & Wear
Posts: 6
Crank and bearing problems too? Really? worn / seized?
12th Jan 2017 10:47 pm
pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2406
V8?
12th Jan 2017 10:57 pm
DN D3 Decade
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: W.London.
Posts: 2289
Quite a few crankshafts have snapped also the main and big end bearing shells have no secure retention, so can spin and block oilways. Not good at all really, if you want my point of view. D3 owned from new, P017 brake recall, BAS FBHIC, new FBH, LR013487 oil pump, new water pump. RRS front lower suspension arms. New suspension compressor/ relay. New Denso alternator. CuNifer rear brake pipes. New GKN rear propshaft. New HPFP belt & tensioner. New A/C Condenser.NO WARRANTY for many many years.
12th Jan 2017 10:58 pm
Bugsy1930
Member Since: 11 Jan 2017
Location: Tyne & Wear
Posts: 6
mmm doesn't sound good. Not my idea of car ownership. Not on a modern anyway. Ive spent hardly anything on my SL55 over the last few years of ownership, mind you, if something went wrong it would be expensive! lol
Having said that, logic is usually ignored when car buying! ha!
12th Jan 2017 11:04 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
If the SL has the M113 engine you just cant compare it to the 2.7/3.0 diesel for costs and reliability.
The M113 and its smaller M112 v6 brother are both damned fine old school tough as old boots engines.
13th Jan 2017 7:06 am
Compusmentis
Member Since: 18 Feb 2016
Location: Effingham
Posts: 237
When I was looking at my D3, the other option was a GL320.
I can't help but think 1 year in, the Merc would have cost me less by now... New gearbox & TC, 3 x front wheel bearings, belts changed, new oil pump, new battery, new rear prop, new front prop, new front diff, front arb refurbed, front cv boot kit, egr blank and BAS software patch, full rear suspension / drivelive rebuild, new front arms, LED trailer light fix, split charge.
Never had a 107, 90 or 127, but have had most of the rest!
16th Jan 2017 8:35 pm
Rich84
Member Since: 25 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
The engine is very good if you can deal with the slight possibility of it failing at some point. Noone knows the exact failure rate but the consensus is it's about 5%. I'm on 267k km/165k mi - mine runs very smooth with no injector problems and pulls hard. I'll have to do the torque converter soon though I think.
The bearing shells are interference fit with the housing (ie the conrod); if any modern engine has tabbed bearings it would be for ease of installation only, not to keep the bearing oriented correctly.
There has been much speculation about the crankshaft failures, including:
-excessive and repetitive shock load from shudder coming from worn out torque converters causing metal fatigue in the crankshaft
-bad batch of crankshafts that weren't nitrided properly
-bad batch of crankshafts that had too much stress undercut around one of the bearings
-crankshaft badly designed with the web between bearing 2-3 having too little material
-engine not designed for such heavy duty, ie, maximum train weight can exceed 7000kg on these.
That's only a few. There is no end of conjecture over on 4x4community.co.za from the South Africans, who seem to be far suffer the most failures (this engine does no reward poor oil servicing).
Wouldn't be a Land Rover without some sort of fatal flaw...2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
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