Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
jimbg wrote:
Moo, what can you do on the drop down tail gate that you cannot do on the plank?
There is nothing in those photo's that I can see?
If you don't mind too much Moo, may I start the answer to that one?:
1. The D5's plank is around a a third of the surface area of the D4's lower tailgate.
2. The plank is much closer to the car, so anyone sitting on it will get mud on the back of their legs.
3. While they are both specced for similar weights, the D4's is much stronger as it is capable of holding that weight much further from the back of the car. The pulley mechanism is stronger and it's attached higher up the D pillars and further out on the lower tailgate - like a proper suspension bridge.
4. It's is possible to leave the lower tailgate open with the upper tailgate shut on the D4. This means that it can be used as a standing platform to unload the roof rack, reach the upper door ladder and use as a viewing platform for events. It also means that it's can be used to carry things like (regular) planks of wood and plywood with the upper tailgate firmly shut.
5. As the lower tailgate protrudes from the back so much further, it can be used as a make shift saw bench, or taptop table. As a laptop table, the curve in the lower door makes a great ergonomic desk with plenty of knee room where the bumper would be on the D5.
6. A group of people sitting on the lower tailgate aren't penned in my the width of the door aperture.
7. My Ben can sit completely out of the boot aperture for a full 180 degree view.
8. The lower tailgate doesn't use up useful space in the boot like the plank does. For instance, the boot space behind the third row of seats is 21 litres smaller in the D5 than it is in the D4.
9. When loading very heavy weights into the boot, with two or more people, it's possible to get to opposite sides of the platform and then place it on the platform itself without having to stretch into the boot aperture (really bad for the back).
17th Feb 2017 11:16 pm
jimbg
Member Since: 19 Apr 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 478
OK, some good points there.
17th Feb 2017 11:42 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
Thanks Jim
17th Feb 2017 11:45 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6261
Point 2 - LR say it was designed to avoid getting dirty and certainly on the car I tried the backs of my legs were away from the body.
Point 8 - It's not the plank that takes up the room, its the stupid thing that's attached to the tailgate which prevents objects being loaded higher than the back window and the awkward shape which means seat 6 and 7 are closer to the window than the D4.
Other than that they are valid points but none that really affect my use of the car, I personally would rather they either went one way or the other, no point having a single piece and a flap when the split would've been just as easy to engineer23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
18th Feb 2017 12:23 am
JMack
Member Since: 02 Aug 2014
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 1517
Red Merle wrote:
JMack wrote:
Red Merle wrote:
We may have to agree to disagree on the tailgate issue, but it's something that I use several times every day and wouldn't be without, so it's a deal breaker for me.
What did you use before a D3/4?
I found the split tailgate a problem at least twice today, but also a benefit once.
3 Freelander 2's in a row. Great cars, I liked them a lot - so I could live without a drop down tailgate but, now that I've been spoiled something rotten, I have no wish to go back!
I keep an alloy walking stick in the boot of the car; it costs but a few quid, it weights nothing and it will hook pretty much anything from the far end of the boot in a jiffy. It's pretty useful for walking too!
Are there any other issues that anyone has with the lower tailgate?
I have a commercial and keep 'stuff' in boxes/crates so using a walking stick or other hooked object is a bit of a non-starter.
I used the lower tailgate as a work-bench and lap-top table today. I would have managed both 'things' if I didn't have a lower tailgate just as I have for the last 30 years...
The lower tailgate did get in my way when trying to access stuff in a crate further into the boot area, halfway between the rear passenger door and the boot.
I'll try and get along to a dealer this weekend and have a look at a D5 and see in the flesh what it is actually like. And ask about the commercial model...
18th Feb 2017 12:58 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13882
Thanks Red Merle.
The problem I have with LR is that I bought into the Discovery ethos of lifestyle, family, recreation and work vehicle. The Discovery was just one vehicle that could do everything you could ever need that stood apart from the rest. I didn't bother with a D4 because in my view it didn't give me any more than what I already had, hence waiting for the D5. I so wanted to love the D5, I really did.
LR have now moved away from that, moved up market and designed a car that is not as practical or functional and yes I know its better off road. I sort of understand why, although I'm not convinced that designing a generic Me2 look a like car in a very crowded space and alienating a loyal base is a great model, but hey ho.
So please don't keep telling me it is as practical and functional, It isn't. LR / car journalists can you please just stop all the bull because it is no longer the lifestyle, family, recreation and work vehicle it used to be. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
18th Feb 2017 1:19 am
APL
Member Since: 14 Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 1130
Especially if after all the aerodynamic styling on the D5 does not improve the overall fuel economy....2016 Discovery 4 Commercial
2019 Discovery 5 HSE
18th Feb 2017 2:41 am
RDR
Member Since: 24 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 2260
Moo Great Pics but you forgot the very important Icream eating pics !
Had a split tailgate for over 10 years and quite honestly not looking forward to being without it. We use it for so much, yes the flap thing has similar functionality but its not as big and doesn't replicate some key functionality i like to have. Primarily it being able to be used to access the roof, hold temperamental dogs back and also i carry long loads a couple of times a month which the D4 lets me do safely and legally.
10 years of the ice-cream bench as we call it :
I prefer BBQ:
Very Useful:
I had Audis before Landrovers and when the D3 came along I traded an RS6 in, the D3 was almost life changing from a practicality perspective. What will we have have now the tailgates gone? been looking for a couple of months and there is definitely an opportunity for someone somewhere! I'm lucky enough to have a budget that can run into Range Rover territory so all options open yet there isn't a single car i have tested that will do what the D4 does for us
I went to a funeral last year and clocked a E class hearse with a split tailgate conversion, it was done really well looked totally OEM. A coach builder could have a really good diversification opportunity with the D5
I have accepted the tailgates death and I'm moving on hence the quest to find a new car is looking outside the brand. The tailgate was the one differentiator that made us not consider anything else for over 10 years. The D5 is now firmly in the pack with the rest of them and it could still be a contender but there is some very good competition out there now days.MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
MY12 HSE - Gone
MY16 HSE Luxury - Sold
MY20 D5 HSE - Sold
Current RR L460 PHEV
18th Feb 2017 9:31 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
I've really enjoyed the family photos that both Moo and RDR have published to argue their cases
I'd like to think of Gerry McGovern having a facepalm moment if he were to realise the size of his design blunder, but I doubt he's one who's used to doing anything that might risk damage to his nails, so all of this practicality talk might be a little confusing for him....
Click image to enlarge
I did take a Range Rover out for a couple of hours before buying my second D4. I took it back within 20 minutes or so. It's a really, really nice car, but a Disco it ain't
There's a great deal less space in the boot, the boot floor is very high, the rear seats don't come close to folding flat and the lower tailgate is smaller and a less useful shape.
Click image to enlarge
Last edited by Red Merle on 18th Feb 2017 10:27 am. Edited 2 times in total
18th Feb 2017 10:05 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
J77 wrote:
Point 2 - LR say it was designed to avoid getting dirty and certainly on the car I tried the backs of my legs were away from the body.
But, if the D4's lower tailgate only just clears the mud and grease (and lower leg / ankle pain!) of a proper, fixed, tow bar, how would the much shorter plank manage it?
RDR wrote:
18th Feb 2017 10:17 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13882
RDR, you're right, we are definitely under ice creamed
Interesting you mention the FFRR, I've also looked at it but I decided I'm not a FFRR type and my kids and friends would rip it out of me mercilessly if I got one.
My thinking is now along the lines of a VW T6 synchro crew cab conversion with a Tesla or keep the old bus and get a Tesla. Whilst its two cars it might give me what I'm after.
In the mean time, the old bus keeps on going strong so I'm quite happy for a while yet. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
18th Feb 2017 10:49 am
ruben D3 Decade
Member Since: 26 Sep 2006
Location: ASTURIAS
Posts: 2382
I think exactly the same as these last opinions, I dont like the icecream but think there is nothing in the market anymore as the DISCO3, nothing, and LR has entered a part of the market with DISCOVERY where there is a lot of supply and very homogenous and nothing at all original .... This, I think LR has shot his own foot, he has made a great mistakelost in translation!
18th Feb 2017 12:01 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6261
Red Merle wrote:
J77 wrote:
Point 2 - LR say it was designed to avoid getting dirty and certainly on the car I tried the backs of my legs were away from the body.
But, if the D4's lower tailgate only just clears the mud and grease (and lower leg / ankle pain!) of a proper, fixed, tow bar, how would the much shorter plank manage it?
On all the cars I've seen they have had the electrically deployed tow bar option, so I've yet to see one with a tow bar on display. But the tow bar looks closer to the body, I think that's due mainly to the nappy.
Though none of those photos show anything that can't be done in the D5, it's just comprised due to its shape.
I've got a 2 hour test drive on Wednesday which will be make or break whether I want to proceed or not. Either way my cars coming, if I don't go for it the salesman will just have to hope someone else likes Namib Orange.
As I've said before, either love it or loath it, I'm not here to convince someone that it's the best thing since sliced bread, it was always going to be compromised when they start using aluminium and improving aerodynamics, but considering its shape the car is still massively practical family car.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
18th Feb 2017 12:21 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
..
18th Feb 2017 12:35 pm
Pollski
Member Since: 22 Jan 2011
Location: Kent
Posts: 149
All the pictures of D4s with cream interiors and DOGS My16 HSE Landmark - 2016 - Current. Indus Silver
My11 HSE - 2011- 2016. Stornoway Grey
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