Member Since: 23 Mar 2009
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 348
FL10 and suspension compressor question......
Evening all,
I've not posted on here for a while as the D3 has been behaving herself (instead I've been over on Defender2.net trying to get my 110 sorted !)
I've had a small air leak on one of the rear air bags for a while - and I've kept nagging myself to get something done about it before that one issue causes another.........driving home from the Lakes on Monday and I got the amber warning light and 'normal height only' message. Overnight the rear O/S corner sunk to the floor (it is that bag that I think has the leak), and it normally does sink overnight - but SWMBO normally leaves the D3 in access mode so it's not so noticeable.
FL10 has blown - I havent got a spare, the local motor factors didn't have one (will be passing a main stealer tomorrow so will purchase a couple). I rigged up a temporary fuse holder/couple of spade connectors etc - but only had a 30A fuse. This ran the compressor long enough to get everything up level at 'normal' height, once the Disco was sitting level the compressor appeared to switch off (I couldnt hear it running)........and all seemed ok, for a couple of minutes - and then the 30A fuse popped.
Question - I know that FL10 is 60A rated, would (under normal circumstances) you expect a 30A fuse to hold, or does the compressor normally draw more current ?
Another question - once I replace FL10 properly tomorrow, if it blows is there anything else I can check or is it time to part with beer tokens and replace the compressor. I've read lots of posts on here relating to suspension/compressor issues - and many mention checking the 12v supply wiring to the compressor - where does this run, and would you not expect my temporary fuse to blow immediately if there was a chafed wire somewhere between FL10 and the compressor (so shorting the supply to the chassis/negative) ?
I don't have anything big enough to measure the current draw of the compressor when it's running - an the only means of reading codes is my BAS remap device..........which only listed the usual EGR-related codes (mine is blanked) and a P0196 which I think was because the engine was not hot or cold (was about an hour after getting home), but maybe the oil temp sensor is also after some attention !
Any suggestions gratefully received,
Thanks,Jim
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5th Jan 2016 8:17 pm
Woolmeister
Member Since: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Chandler's Ford
Posts: 3464
I had a similar fault where FL10 kept blowing but, bizarrely, only when I parked facing downhill.
In the end, I bit the bullet and put a new AMK compressor on it. No further problems since. I put my fault down to some kind of internal electrical problem with the compressor itself. I would probably expect to see some kind of Suspension fault showing up on yours? Perhaps a:
C1A27-14 (6C) Compressor circuit - General electrical failure - circuit short to ground or open
No? You would need an amp clamp to measure current draw of the compressor. Robbie is da man when it comes to all things electrical on these cars. You could check for wiring faults behind the nearside front wheel arch liner. That's a common spot for wires to corrode.
Let us know how you get on.
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5th Jan 2016 8:46 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
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Leaking bags is relatively rare, so probably a leak elsewhere.
A pump under load can pull over 30 amps, so the fuse blowing is not much of a surprise given that it managed to blow the original.
Continuing with a leak is a bad idea on 2 counts. The first is that the pump has to run more often to compensate for the loss and the second is that the discharged air is leaving via the leak point and not via the desiccant to help dry it. The end result is an increasingly soggy desiccant that increases the load on the compressor further and risks contaminating the valves downstream.
For current measurement an DC amp clamp is ideal; or a voltage drop check across a suitable fuse for Ohm's Law maths / look-up table; or an inline power meter (I have one that reads up to 130 amps).
I cannot stress enough the importance of a visual check of the wiring.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 23 Mar 2009
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 348
Nice one chaps, thanks for the replies.
I might have to wait till the weekend to check the wiring, and for air leaks - presumably some water with a splash of soap in will show a leaking pipe/union ?
I read a thread on here about the end plate of the drier cracking - but I guess the whole vehicle would sink over time if that were my problem, mine only seems to sink badly on the rear o/s
The Disco's an 06 plate with just over 91k on the clock - should I have changed the air inlet filter for the compressor ? IIRC it's in the n/s side panel space in the boot - where the towing fuses are ?
Thanks,Jim
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5th Jan 2016 9:24 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
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Yep, a little car shampoo in a spray bottle for the bubble hunt. Remover to isolate the EAS (pull fuse) to see exactly what drops by morning without the electronics getting in the way.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Chandler's Ford
Posts: 3464
A leaking dryer cap would not cause the suspension to drop on its own, no. The pressure in the reservoir will drop but the reservoir valve block should hopefully prevent any air that is already in the air bags and associated pipe work from escaping.
A leaking dryer cap will cause the compressor to run longer than it needs to because it will take longer for the reservoir to come up to pressure.
Certainly worth checking for a leak in the dryer cap whilst you're at it. Usually a hairline crack between the orange and blue pipe collars.
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6th Jan 2016 7:32 am
JimboD3
Member Since: 23 Mar 2009
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 348
Excellent advice as always
Just another couple of q's.........
1. which is the best fuse to pull to disable the EAS ?
2. if I raise the D3 up to offroad height and pull the fuse, will it stay there (so I can go hunting for the leak) ?
Thanks,Jim
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6th Jan 2016 9:34 am
Woolmeister
Member Since: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Chandler's Ford
Posts: 3464
To completely disable the EAS, you should remove:
F3 (5A)
F26 (20A)
FL10 (60A)
It should stay there if you put it up to offroad height and leave a passenger door open whilst you remove the above fuses. EAS should not adjust when a passenger door is open.
The other place to check for leaks is at the front of the reservoir, just behind the nearside front wheel under the sill. They tend to rust quite a bit at the front and it's quite possible that your reservoir is losing pressure almost as quickly as the compressor (which may also have a leak on the dryer) is pumping air into it.
Steve2021 BMW iX3 Premier Edition in Carbon Black ⚡️🔌
2019 Škoda Kodiaq 2.0 Tdi 190 DSG Sportline in Quartz Grey. Excellent vehicle. Gone.
2017 Discovery Sport HSE Auto in Carpathian Grey and Ebony Leather. Modern JLR Junk. Gone.
2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual in Zermatt Silver with Ebony Cloth (143k) Gone, but now patrolling the Asia section of the West Midlands Safari Park!
6th Jan 2016 9:41 am
JimboD3
Member Since: 23 Mar 2009
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 348
Well, I've fitted a new 60A fusible link (FL10 - LR part number YQG100440.......cheapest part I've ever purchased from LR !!), and all seems ok.
Once the new fuse was in, I started up and the compressor started to run - I let it run for a couple of minutes whilst it levelled out (rear n/s corner was on the stops). I then went for off road height and got the 'vehicle raising slowly' message - maybe the air tank was low on pressure ? Eventually we got there, so I left things running for another 10 mins whilst I carried out a visual of the rear bags and pipework - didn't do the soapy water testing, will leave that for the weekend when I can get the D3 on the drive and the spare wheel off etc.
So far everything seems ok, the compressor is not running all the time - so there's not a major air leak, I don't have any diagnostic kit to check tank pressures etc - might be time to think about getting something though (any recommendations ?) - but presumably as the compressor stops, the tank must be up to pressure/full.Jim
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6th Jan 2016 3:54 pm
Woolmeister
Member Since: 26 Mar 2007
Location: Chandler's Ford
Posts: 3464
The compressor will run until the pressure in the reservoir reaches ~1780kPa or until the compressor gets too hot. The old Hitachi compressors run very hot compared to the newer AMK ones. Yours could be cutting out due to getting too hot rather than being up to pressure.
Once it reaches ~1780kPa it typically dumps a load of pressure and will drop down to about ~160kPa where it will sit until it drops below some other threshold (and so it begins again).
The IIDTool is an excellent diagnostic tool and will enable you to interrogate numerous sensors on the D3, including the pressure in the suspension reservoir. The Bluetooth version is well worth the extra ££ assuming you have a handheld device (smartphone/tablet) you can connect it to.
You really need to do the leak test and a good visual inspection of the wiring before throwing a new compressor at it. When I replaced my compressor, I also replaced the air tank at the same time (which was quite rusty).
Steve2021 BMW iX3 Premier Edition in Carbon Black ⚡️🔌
2019 Škoda Kodiaq 2.0 Tdi 190 DSG Sportline in Quartz Grey. Excellent vehicle. Gone.
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6th Jan 2016 4:06 pm
JimboD3
Member Since: 23 Mar 2009
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 348
Jim
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6th Jan 2016 5:03 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
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It does not (well, should not) dump the pressure in the reservoir, it should try to preserve it.
I think you are referring to the gallery pressure; this is reduced to give the pump an easier time on start-up, otherwise the starting current would be horrendous.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 23 Mar 2009
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 348
Well, that fix lasted - not !...............10 mins into her drive to work and SWMBO got the bong and 'suspension fault' message - so presumably the fuse has popped again.
The rear o/s corner had sunk overnight (as per usual), but it all levelled up ok when started this morning - and the compressor ran for a couple of mins and then stopped. I'm wondering if this might be a cable chafed through somewhere - and maybe it only shorts when the D3 is moving ?
Guess that's my weekend sorted Jim
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7th Jan 2016 9:33 am
frenchy
Member Since: 05 Dec 2007
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1040
Jimbo,
how did you get on with the problem??
I'm having similar suspension issues
Tayaste kindly cleared my numerous fauly codes this week ( ) but the C1a27 -14 (general electrical failure - circuit short to ground or open) fault has remained.
Checked 60a Fusable link (Fl10) and indeed it has blown.
Ordered a new F.L. and a compressor relay for good measure.
Will see what happens when they arrive.........2000 D2 TD5 - big red tractor (2004-2007)
2006 D3 - sadly missed (2007-2012)
2010 D4 - lovely colour Nara Bronze (2012-2018)
2016 D4 - best of the bunch (2018-2024)
2022 DiscoSport 45mpg, but its not a D4 (2024.......)
1997 Def 90 - softtop (2011.........)
10th Mar 2016 5:21 pm
JimboD3
Member Since: 23 Mar 2009
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 348
I ended up replacing the compressor which has so far (touch wood !) sorted all my problems.......the D3 now sinks slightly at the front (both sides) overnight, but the new compressor quite happily copes with levelling it out. I'm suspecting that either the feed from the main valve block to the front valve block is leaking, or the front valve block has a sticking seal, but I've been a bit tied up to have a look at it.
When I replaced the compressor, I had to do a 'hard reset' to clear the orange suspension fault dash light - take both leads off the battery and short THE LEADS together with something (I used a 1/2" extension bar)......don't short the battery terminals !!!!Jim
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Perhaps a:
You could check for wiring faults behind the nearside front wheel arch liner. That's a common spot for wires to corrode.
