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Cut the sunroof valves; what the future holds!
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rbellinge
 


Member Since: 28 Aug 2015
Location: Perth
Posts: 14

Australia 2010 Discovery 4 5.0 V8 HSE Auto Nara BronzeDiscovery 4
Cut the sunroof valves; what the future holds!

Gents et al,

I have one of the oldest D3’s out there, an 11/2004 build D3 V8, absolute dream vehicle! … except for the sunroof drains.


The passenger footwell was sopping wet after getting caught in a torrential downpour, water overflowed the sunroof pipes and dripped onto our legs driver/passenger while driving. Not a welcome feeling. Then the key fob stopped working. Thanks to you pack of legends I found the problem, the 3-wire green/yellow connector alongside the passenger seat. Clearly the PO had gone looking for it as well, all myriad of wires had been cut/resoldered, but clearly to no avail. The keyfob would start working after disconnect/reconnecting the battery. The negative terminal was worn from such activities by the PO, but he never found the 3-wire connector! His loss = my gain. So I cut and resoldered the 3-wire, as mentioned in previous posts, mainly here: http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic54235.html, then disconnect/reconnected the battery, and 3 months down the track, and the keyfob has yet to falter. Hooray!

So then I noticed, that despite drying out the footwell, it was sopping wet after a month... after just sitting there in my driveway! Not even torrential rains and a moving vehicle (the forward motion pushes windscreen water up and over the top of the car, down into the sunroof drain system). I went searching for the problem. It has been attributed to several suspects, from the pollen filter housing, to the windscreen surround (this was a fix released by LR themselves... utter rubbish as far as I can see)... which the PO had obviously looked for and attempted to fix, and cocked up the A pillar in the attempt.

I made a sunroof drainpipe water cleaner setup, firstly. Working in a hospital, it’s all human-use stuff. A 16 gauge intravenous cannula sleeve, attached to a J-loop, attached to a 50mL syringe. Precision! Fits perfectly down the sunroof drainpipe perfectly, and one can exert an awful lot of pressure to bosh out the pipes of crud and filth. Except, I heard a tricking sound INSIDE the cab in the passenger side footwell when putting it through. Uh oh.


Long story short; I went looking for the trickling sound/water source by ripping out the glovebox etc, but couldn’t get past the fuse box behind the glovebox. This route would require removing the ENTIRE dash assembly. There is a lot of steel framing under there which needs to come out before the fuse box can be removed, as far as I can see. The water leaking noise was definitely coming from behind the fuse box. A heart sinking kind of sound, I assure you. So I tried a different route. I removed the front fender, which was surprisingly and delightfully easy.

Required tools:
1. Plastic trim removal tool

2. Torx head socket set
3. 10mm socket head
4. a 4-8mm diameter guide wire of your choosing (curtain wire might cut it)
5. a soft-jawed clamp
6. a 12mm oversleeve pipe
7. some superglue (geez I hope this lasts forever)
8. large diameter drill bit capable of drilling steel
9. round hand file, and a flat hand file, and a wire brush to clean both
10. patience

1. Remove 3 screws holding on mudguard

2. Remove the 2-3 outermost black plastic trim clips of the wheel arch lining holding the wheel arch guard

3. remove the front grille (4 spring clips)

4. remove headlight (two metal vertical sliders), unplug electrics and put aside

5. UNSCREW headlight-end screw holding wheel arch guard on to the body!


6. pull away the wheel arch guard from the mudguard-end first, it’s pop clips, just pull don’t stress

8. undo all 4 torx head bolts attaching fender to body, 3 on top of fender, easy to access no need to remove plastic at bottom of windscreen, just gently bend it out of the way, and 1 on corner of front bumper

9. REACH UNDER FENDER, don’t pull on fender too much, use a 10mm socket with extension, you can see the nut from above adjacent to the door, undo 10mm nut a few turns, fender will then slide off bolt. REMEMBER FOLKS, this fender is soft/pliable (ductile) metal, so be gentle, if everything is undone, it will almost fall off. If its not falling off, you’ve missed something! Don’t bend your fender because you didn’t read this post properly!

10. visualise the hole where your drainpipe used to exit the cab. SWEAR PROFUSELY.


11. obtain large diameter drill bit, drill a GIANT circle around the existing hole where your drainpipe should be exiting (the bigger the hole, the more room you have to work).


Just to let you know; the drainpipe has a soft rubber elbow (below is not my pic) that joins the pipe to the steel chassis, then exits with that well known 4 way valve, which everyone is so keen on cutting blindly. This is what happens when you cut blindly. Errors are made. The valve gives back pressure to stop the pipe falling back into the cab. But this will eventually happen to everyone, anyway, hence this post…


Remember, I have the oldest D3 out there, so all my components are dusty as grandpa in the sun. That elbow is made from a poor choice of material. Mine is made of rubber that is now literally turning into liquid. To touch it, it honestly feels like putty. So it essentially liquified and pulled back out through the hole, and fell into the cab, and proceeded to drain water into the footwell. I CAN TELL YOU ALL, THIS WILL HAPPEN TO YOU, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU PRAY IT WONT.


12. File the massive hole you made in your cab chassis to ensure no finger-cutting edges are left, use a round file to connect the holes, then a flat file to make it finger-friendly.

13. Channel your nearest gynaecologist, stick your fingers in there, grab the black piping, with red rings around it, pull the wayward end through, pull the rubbery crappy elbow off it. DON’T PULL TOO HARD, you will pull it off the elbow at the roof end of the pipe. The roof is a Censored to remove without uglying up the cab.

14. Take that crummy rubber elbow, throw it to the ground, step on it, swear at it, curse its parental lineage, wee on it, take a breath and move on. Then step on it again.

14. Slide an (approx.) 4-8mm flexible guide wire of your choosing up that pipe.

15. Remove A pillar inside trim, by prying out the landrover insignia plastic covering, unscrewing the torx head screw holding it on, remove trim entirely. Set aside. Take a breath again.

16. Find your soft jaw clamp, clamp the black drain pipe when you can feel your guide wire inside the pipe. This will stabilise the pipe, allowing you to ‘pull’ on the guidewire which will straighten the pipe for the next step.

17. This bit broke my heart until I thought of the above mentioned guide wire.

18. Slide a 12mm tube over the existing sunroof drainpipe, pushing it over the pipe enough that it effectively seals the tubing from leakage etc. I put superglue over the leading edge of the sunroof pipe, in anticipation of this larger diameter piping. It worked damn well for me.


19. Pray. This will have all been torture on your fingers. Trying to keep that existing sunroof pipe straight and resistant enough to accept sliding the 12mm outer new tubing over it is an exercise in fury and frustration. It’s a job even a gynaecologist would hate. And I should know, because I am one.

20. Test the system for water tightness. Do a little dance. Bolt on your fender. Do another dance. Clip on your wheel arch guard, then your wheel liner with those annoying plastic clips. Swear. It’s not easy. Do everything above, in reverse. I’m not going to hold your hand here. You’ve made it this far.

21. Pray to GOD this doesn’t happen to the driver side.

Bear in mind gents; I have the oldest D3 among us. This WILL happen to us all, eventually. They used a crummy material to make the drainpipe elbows. It’s only a matter of time before they all melt and pull through the chassis bulkhead.

I hear no increase in road noise with the hole I cut. I lined the hole with silicone to protect the new piping from getting shredded on bumps. I really, really USE my D3, no abuse but my goodness it gets exercise. A more wonderful vehicle, I have yet to encounter. This issue knocked $10k off the purchase price. I couldn’t be happier! Can I help fix yours? God no, go away, my fingers are ruined.

I do understand this is fix is not too complicated; I wanted to write this for the noobs out there, otherwise these vehicles will devalue drastically once this issue appears for all and sundry. Also just a heads up, this will create magnetised steel filings, so keep clean, they are sharp.
 2005 Discovery 3 4.4L V8, gone
1977 series III ex-military 6 cylinder troop carrier, gone but not forgotten
1973 series II inherited farm ute, waiting for attention
3x 1997 Perentie ex-military MONSTERS getting rego'd 
 
Post #16522459th May 2016 11:48 am
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Slimer
Site Moderator 


Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Last Exit to Nowhere
Posts: 16295

United Kingdom 

Quote:
This WILL happen to us all, eventually.
Only those of us with sunroofs Wink

Nice write up Thumbs Up Though I suspect this would be even more of a difficult job for anyone not so familiar with sticking their hands in small places Razz
 The End 

Last edited by Slimer on 9th May 2016 12:21 pm. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #16522599th May 2016 12:12 pm
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drmcw
 


Member Since: 10 Mar 2009
Location: 9/10 people have trouble Reading
Posts: 1640

United Kingdom 

Love to read a write up from your day job.......perhaps not on second thougts. Laughing
  
Post #16522609th May 2016 12:14 pm
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Barn1e
D3 Decade 


Member Since: 28 Aug 2006
Location: Mid-sussex
Posts: 2021

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Tonga GreenDiscovery 3

Seems that one of my better decisions in 2005 was not going for the option of sunroof.
 2005, TDV6 S, Auto, 190k miles, owned from new, V8 Brake Upgrade, Nancom Evo, RLD protector, BAS EGR blanking & Remap, separate ATF cooler, changing all the fluids ahead of time.  
Post #16522739th May 2016 12:34 pm
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rbellinge
 


Member Since: 28 Aug 2015
Location: Perth
Posts: 14

Australia 2010 Discovery 4 5.0 V8 HSE Auto Nara BronzeDiscovery 4

thanks gents, glad its a job done and not a job to do. at least at work there is some flex in the places the hand has to go. this job cut my fingers up something tragic. 3 weeks down the track, in deep winter, and the passenger floor remains bone dry, AND the key fob continues to work. well pleased Thumbs Up
 2005 Discovery 3 4.4L V8, gone
1977 series III ex-military 6 cylinder troop carrier, gone but not forgotten
1973 series II inherited farm ute, waiting for attention
3x 1997 Perentie ex-military MONSTERS getting rego'd 
 
Post #165454314th May 2016 7:49 am
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oldstout
 


Member Since: 03 Apr 2016
Location: North East England
Posts: 247

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Lux Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 3

Nice job Sir! Bow down

I always wondered what a Gyno did for kicks after working 'downstairs' all week... Whistle

Now I know.

He does DIY tutorials on his Disco Laughing Laughing Laughing

Thumbs Up
  
Post #166092429th May 2016 2:27 pm
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highlands
 


Member Since: 10 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5085

Ukraine 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

You don't need to remove the entire dash to get the fuse box (CJB) out; just the glovebox.
It's fiddly but if you look at how the hinged electrical connectors come in/out on the front of the CJB the ones at the back aren't all that bad to do.
 Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
Grey 05 TDV6 HSE Auto (Gone)
54 TDV6 SE Man (killed by me Sad
 
Post #166093629th May 2016 3:26 pm
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martyn@seatcupra.net
 


Member Since: 24 Nov 2012
Location: Poole
Posts: 112

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Barolo BlackDiscovery 3

Thanks for posting this, I had a lake in the passenger footwell after cleaning the car.

After reaching up through the wheel arch I discovered the same as yourself, a 'butchered' drain floating in free air. After opening up the hole I managed to pull the pipe through and sleeve it with a new section of pipe. I could of probably avoided having to widen the whole if I'd of disconnected the drain pipe from the sunroof and fed some excess down into the wing and then pulled it back up once i'd finished 'operating' Smile
 Current - 05 D3 HSE TDV6
Ex 55 FFRR 4.2 Supercharged
Ex 55 D3 HSE TDV6 
 
Post #17176269th Oct 2016 7:08 pm
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yogi972
 


Member Since: 05 Jun 2011
Location: Kineton
Posts: 3372

United Kingdom 2010 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Alaska WhiteDiscovery 4

Surprised

Not butchered by me might I add Rolling Eyes
 

Last edited by yogi972 on 11th Oct 2016 1:03 pm. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #171807110th Oct 2016 8:29 pm
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martyn@seatcupra.net
 


Member Since: 24 Nov 2012
Location: Poole
Posts: 112

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Barolo BlackDiscovery 3

Good to hear Smile

It had certainly seen better days Mr. Green
 Current - 05 D3 HSE TDV6
Ex 55 FFRR 4.2 Supercharged
Ex 55 D3 HSE TDV6 
 
Post #171807310th Oct 2016 8:33 pm
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Aerialmark
 


Member Since: 21 Jun 2015
Location: Burnley (Where the M65 is cobbled)
Posts: 5189

England 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

You could also get to the wheel arch drains by using this simple and cost effective way Whistle

 The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything;
They just make the best of everything they have. 
 
Post #173205510th Nov 2016 5:29 pm
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airstreamer
 


Member Since: 03 Nov 2012
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 40

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Causeway GreyDiscovery 4
Replacing tube from sunroof drain

Many thanks after 10 or so hours on this job in 2 stints Ive done it. We had driven around with a tube into a bucket in front footwell for a few weeks after realising this time the drain wasn't block but rotted. Having ordered new tube with connector first attempt I approached through the wheel arch lining but although I could get to touch end of new pipe , hole and access too awkward to get it through. 2nd attempt I followed your instructions for removing front grill , headlight and then fender BUT I couldn't get the damn screws holding the mudflap off , ended up hack sawing one but couldn't even get hack saw near the lower one. However I had better access to the hole with fender pulled out at the top .

I threaded aquatic air tube inside new pipe which i fed down from bottom of pillar till I could touch end of this thinner softer pipe in hole ( hadnt made it any bigger) which i managed to grab with pointed pliers and then pulled and eased as my daughter fed the pipe a little more from inside. Eventually thicker tube was pulled through , I left about 3 inches through hole and reattached new elbow to stop it popping back in.

Inside was now a little short to reach connection in roof lining so reused some of the temporary clear tube I had been using which fitted tightly over new pipe and onto connector ( bit of silicone to be safe).

Had been ready to start looking at new cars but then couldn't have sold it with a bucket as the drain receptor!!

Can't believe it is eventually done, hands wrecked and aching from crouching bending and kneeling. All bits bar 2 scrivits went back and mud flap is partly loose but wont fall off. The screws in the , mudflap were the maddening bit.

Many thanks for description , the only bit I struggled with was the bolt just inside fender near door pillar as tight to get access.

Now heading out for a meal think I deserve it.
Yawn
  
Post #184667712th Aug 2017 5:57 pm
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