Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Battery Drain
Having tried adding to the end of a prior thread on D3 Faults and Fixes, without any feedback, I am trying this local post as I am banging my head against a brick wall at the moment and have racked-up significant costs to little effect.
The background to the problem is that the alternator blew up and zapped the battery. The alternator was replaced with a new one and the service place said that the recently fitted (Varta) battery looked OK. However the battery did not seem to be holding the charge too well as evidenced by the Traxide auxiliary battery system indicating that the Varta battery was being charged frequently on start-up for up to 20-30 minutes at 15V. Plus I was getting the usual set of warning lights coming on from time to time and voltage checks with the meter confirmed this. After having the issue checked-out, a new battery was fitted in case the Varta was stuffed. Some days afterwards we went away for 5 weeks and on return the battery was competley flat and would not even charge. The car had been outside and overnight the temperature does drop below zero on occasion. It is usually garaged.
The average overnight battery voltage drop is between .25 to .5. The service place checked for any parasitic battery drain and residual draw showed as 0ma (which I find hard to understand). I have disconnected the auxiliary battery overnight in case it was a problem, but it was not. I have pulled out fuse F26E to see if the EAS wake-up is the problem but it is not. I disconnected the battery overnight in case it was the problem, but it was not. Where to next?
A 2012 post on this topic by Robbie sad that other circuits could come alive overnight in error so it would be good to know what these might be.Disco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
15th Sep 2016 10:42 pm
rsp
Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Battery drain
Just been back to the service place to remeasure the battery drain and this time came up with 28ma, so now chasing some thing tangible. Will now check out for current through the fuses.Disco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
16th Sep 2016 3:50 am
rsp
Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Battery Drain
Slow progress tracking down the cause of the patristics draw. Using Robbie's method pf checking voltage drop across a fuse, I measured a drop of 1.7mv on F27 (ECM) that equates to 95ma. The voltage drop was consistent over a reasonable period of time.
The fuse box lid indicated that the fuse was not used and removing the fuse overnight made no difference to the leakage. Also the measured battery draw was only 28ma, so the figures did not seem to tally. Any suggestions welcome.
The next step is to measure the draw again but using a current clamp rather than a DMM, as mine does not seem able to provide a consistent measure.Disco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
21st Sep 2016 7:50 am
WayneD
Member Since: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Sydney Darwin ,Singapore, USA, UK and now country NSW
Posts: 531
I will be interested to see if you find the cause. My neighbour has a RR and he has similar problem and has not been able to find the problem. If the vehicle is standing I think it takes about a week and his battery is drained.Take the road less traveled. Dual battery system.ORS drawers,LR cargo Barrier.ARB Bull bar,side protection bars,Mickey Thompson ATR's 17" rims, Rear wheel carrier, radiator guard TPMS Mitchell Bros Tow Hitch LR RAI Steel Rims , GME UHF, Off Road GPS, Llams (yet to be fitted)
23rd Sep 2016 6:11 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Re: Battery Drain
rsp wrote:
Slow progress tracking down the cause of the patristics draw. Using Robbie's method pf checking voltage drop across a fuse, I measured a drop of 1.7mv on F27 (ECM) that equates to 95ma. The voltage drop was consistent over a reasonable period of time.
Tricky one if there is current flowing on the ECM fuse as it is indicative of a CANBUS issue somewhere and these can be erratic to chase down, to say the least.
Keep at it and good luck - drop me a note if you need any help.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
Had similar on my D3. Turned out to be the key barrel. Dealer swapped it to check first then ordered another one. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
24th Sep 2016 12:04 am
rsp
Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Battery Drain
Hi all and many thanks for your help.
What I do not understand about the fuse F27, over and above that the lid says that it is not used for my D3 variant, is that the current draw does not appear to show-up when measured at the battery and that removing the fuse seems to make no difference to the drain. This suggests that F27 is not the problem but the current has to be coming from the battery?
Robbie, any further information on tracking down CANBUs problems would be appreciated. I have had a search of the forum on that topic, but yet to find an entry that provides help to a rank amateur, other than to check for where wires are plugged under certain wheel arches. There is a description of how the CANBUS works but not how to problem shoot current leakage.
There is one error code showing up using the IIDTool, that has been around for quite some time but that has not been of interest to the service people and this is:-
Vehicle scanned on 24-09-2016 07:39
Using IIDTool BT V3.0 B2060
Body Control
B1C57-14 (2F) Passive start ignition relay coil circuit - General electrical failure - circuit short to ground or open
( at 156T140 km )
caverD3, how was your problem tracked-down to the key barrel please?Disco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
24th Sep 2016 5:26 am
caverD3
Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
The dealer thought it might be the car not shutting down properly when switched off. So was still draining power when off and locked.
They swapped for another from a customers car and it stopped the drain when locked. So they then ordered a new barrel. No probs since.“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
24th Sep 2016 8:53 am
rsp
Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Battery Drain
Hi caverD3 - thanks, I will put it on the list of possibilities.
Progress today was that by using the positive terminal, to measure the battery drain and it was .48amps. This had not been achievable using the negative terminal at home. Have since checked around 2/3rds of the glove box fuses without finding anything. The 1/3rd left to do are those down the left side of the fuse box. The only fuse with anything on it so far is F27, but that is only 95ma. At least it looks as if a continuous draw has been confirmed, so it should be possible to track down the source.Disco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
25th Sep 2016 8:22 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Always start the checking at the battery junction box before moving to the central junction box as one is effectively a subset of the other. Working big-to-small is the mantra.
With the vehicle asleep the grand total of current drain should be 30mA or below.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Battery Drain
Hi Robbie, thanks for the advice. I did the BJB, assuming that is the one under the bonnet, first, but at this stage can only do the mini fuses until I get the tools to test the larger fuses. That is how I picked up F27.Disco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
25th Sep 2016 12:18 pm
rsp
Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Battery drain
Some further progress today. I decided, in the absence of the right tools, to pull out the fuse links and measure the current on each. This showed FL17 as drawing 116ma and FL18 134ma. Then went and bought a better DMM and was able to measure the current draw off the +ve terminal and got .512a this time. Pulled out FL17 and it dropped very marginally, but on pulling FL18 it dropped to .380a. After allowing for say 30 Ma of draw, that still leaves around .100a unexplained. Will pull both fuses overnight and see how that impacts the drain. Have cancelled the purchase of a Current Clamp for the moment. I found an entry on an Australian LR site that was about a similar problem and draw, but it seems that the draw was only from FL17, but after tracking the problem to HeVAC module and relaxing it, all was fine. See http://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3...l17-2.htmlDisco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
26th Sep 2016 8:07 am
rsp
Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Battery Draw
I think I have now tracked down all of the draw. The next step is to find and fix the faults causing the draw.
The remeasured draw is .512a
The following are causing the draw
165 Ma - Auxiliary battery switch from Traxide USI160 (this is not a fault)
95ma - F27 (ECM - Robbie says this could be the CANBUS)
115ma - FL17 (might be the HeVAC module)
136ma - FL18 (do not yet know what this is)
0.35ma - FL8 (too small to worry about?)
Total is .512a, by coincidence.
I have yet to measure the voltage drop on some 1/3rd of the fuses in the glovebox.Disco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
27th Sep 2016 9:35 pm
MGCarr
Member Since: 15 Jul 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 703
WayneD wrote:
I will be interested to see if you find the cause. My neighbour has a RR and he has similar problem and has not been able to find the problem. If the vehicle is standing I think it takes about a week and his battery is drained.
Not wishing to take this thread too far off topic but if your neighbour's RR is a P38 there is a known fault with the radio receiver for the remote locking. The early versions of the receiver had inadequate shielding against spurious radio signals from things like wireless door bells, remote garage door openers etc and this resulted in the BECM unit being woken up repeatedly and then taking time to shut down. This can flatten the battery surprisingly quickly.
1997 Defender 90 for the kids and I to have a go at some competitive off road RTV and Tyro trials, daughter picked up her first trophy over the August Bank Holiday.
Previous Land Rover history
1996 P38 4.6 V8 Autobiography
1996 Discovery TDi 300
1972 Range Rover 3.5 V8
LWB Hard Top Series 3
LWB Truck Cab Series 2A
Not been without a Land Rover for over 40 years - I must need therapy!
27th Sep 2016 11:43 pm
rsp
Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Battery Drain
After a prlonged visit to the local service place, it seems that my diagnosis of the likely culprits was overturned and FL3 isolated as the likely offender, but it seemed intermittent when with them and still unresolved. Even though I always waited at least 20+ minutes afterward locking the car before checking the fuses, I am advised that their current dropped away after a longer wait.
It is back with me to see if it reoffends which it seems to have done. I did measure the current through FL3 as 9ma, which is not very high. It is quite possible that I got the measurement wrong. At this stage I can only measure voltage and not amps at the battery and the voltage drop with FL3 in place was .06v over a 4 hour period, which is .015v ph. FL3 is shown on the fuse box lid is being connected to the transfer case. Does anyone have any ideas as to a likely cause of the problem. Voltage drop over a period of 10 hours with FL3 removed, was .09v, which is .009v ph.
I have found no posts specifically mentioning FL3, but there are some related to the transfer case ECM. If it was the ECM, I would expect to see other symptoms. Maybe worth checking it anyway.Disco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
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