Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Northampton.
Posts: 22
Auto / Manual Wiring loom differences. CAN based problems.
Copied from my other thread as it went a little off topic, and think I have moved on a bit since then.
I have fitted an Auto loom to my manual car after the engine fire. (Was told by MMJ there would be no problem or differences)
One multi plug sits loose around the ECU area - possibly a 40 or 50 pin slide connection that I assume would connect to the Autobox ECU if it had one (This has a few twisted yellow/black CAN wires in the loom). This then connects to the piece that runs into the cabin to the interior fusebox behind glovebox.
What I am thinking is, as the system runs CAN - if this module is not fitted could it be the missing link stopping the rest of the system from there onwards from communicating? From what I have read it goes from TCS module and terminates at the ABS unit. I cannot find a full flow diagram showing in which order the systems are connected, and I cannot for the life of me get my Mongoose cable working to do an integrity test!!
Does anyone have any wiring diagrams I can scratch my head over, or even know for certain if the two looms differ - or if I can bypass the Auto ECU connector so that it keeps the rest in check? I have a feeling that if the CANBUS is linked in sequence with the Autobox ECU mising, it fails to connect to anything further along the line - does this make sense?
Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Northampton.
Posts: 22
Faults are the typical:
Suspension lowered,
HDC Fault,
Special functions unavailable,
Park brake fault,
And every imaginable light on the dash to add to the misery. However, it still starts first turn of the key and does pump up slightly so is off the stops and can be driven without fault.
23rd Nov 2015 4:39 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
The looms are type specific to the auto and manual versions of the vehicle. They are also specific to VIN ranges.
Whilst you could argue that ultimately wire is wire and can conduct electrickery, practically you are attempting a massive task with no assurance of success.
Fit the correct loom.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
The unused or latent CANBUS wiring for the auto box does nothing good for the wider network. Without correct termination and grounding the unused part of the loom will act as an antenna to pull in all the interference it can find.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Northampton.
Posts: 22
Thanks for the replies chaps.
There are three looms -
- One for engine bay wiring - this runs right the way around the engine bay and has the plugs to ecu as well as the redundant autobox one - this enters the cabin at both ends of the firewall, drivers side to brake switch and instruments etc, and passenger side to CJB. (It is only this loom that has the redundant connector by ecu box)
- One for the transfer loom which connects to engine wiring harness above using a multiplug - then runs across bulkhead and behind engine on top of gearbox to XY sensor, along the side to speed sensor and to the transfer box gubbins.
- One engine wiring harness that sits connects injectors and engine electronics to engine ECU.
I was told by MMJ that there is no difference in the auto loom - I am not in a position to take the whole loom back out again, send it back and refit another.
23rd Nov 2015 1:16 pm
amk2vr6
Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Northampton.
Posts: 22
I'll grab a quick pic of the connector later, although doubt it will make much difference.
I was hoping there was a way of simulating the auto box ecu being connected?
23rd Nov 2015 1:32 pm
Martin Site Admin and Owner
Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18507
A little confused here you say you have a loose connector, with 40 or 50 pins, but also that it is also joined to a harness for the cabin?
It might sound pedantic but a positive ID of the connector - exact number of pins, wire colours, etc - will help trace it in wiring diagrams.
Otherwise it's guesswork.
However, doing some guesswork - that the connector you have is loose and is an 18 pin connector - then it does break the CAN bus by having it unconnected.
To fix this:
Bridge pin 2 (yellow with brown) and pin 4 (yellow with brown)
Bridge pin 3 (yellow with black) and pin 5 (yellow with black)
The part of the harness that would plug into this connects these pins and creates a CAN bus branch out to the autobox ECU (TCM).06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
Any issues with the site let me know!
23rd Nov 2015 2:06 pm
amk2vr6
Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Northampton.
Posts: 22
This is the sort of info I wanted to hear.
If you give me 10 minutes I'll whip the battery out and grab a pic of the connector
23rd Nov 2015 2:14 pm
amk2vr6
Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Northampton.
Posts: 22
Here we are -
Multi plug connecting engine harness to engine bay wiring loom (Ignore this pic)
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The offending connector -
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You can see the wires to the connector at the bottom of this pic -
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18 Pins as you said -
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Wire colours -
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And where it joins on to the loom that goes through bulkhead to CJB / through chassis leg.
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Also have this rogue two pin connector -
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Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated
Last edited by amk2vr6 on 23rd Nov 2015 3:30 pm. Edited 1 time in total
23rd Nov 2015 3:26 pm
amk2vr6
Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Northampton.
Posts: 22
And just to add quickly - Looking at pics of Auto box ECU's on ebay - they have a 3 plug arrangement similar to the transfer ECU. So that plug cant be for an Auto ECU?
23rd Nov 2015 3:29 pm
Martin Site Admin and Owner
Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18507
OK, so it is the connector I thought it was.
Have you tried the bridge connections I suggested?
It is absolutely the a connector for the autobox, however the ECU does not fit directly to it.
There would be another loom onto the gearbox, as the gearbox ECU is in the gearbox.
I can't find any gearbox ECUs on eBay which suggest otherwise?06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
Any issues with the site let me know!
23rd Nov 2015 3:34 pm
amk2vr6
Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Northampton.
Posts: 22
That would make sense. Looking at pics on ebay the Autobox ECU has three smaller connectors similar to the Transfer case ECU. So like you said there would be a loom that connects to the Autobox ECU, and runs down to the transmission connecting to the internal ecu.
I will go and bridge them now and report back
23rd Nov 2015 4:07 pm
Martin Site Admin and Owner
Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18507
Good luck 06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
Any issues with the site let me know!
23rd Nov 2015 4:24 pm
amk2vr6
Member Since: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Northampton.
Posts: 22
Cant thank you enough for your help. Just doing a couple of bits in the house and ill pop straight out and bridge the pins you suggested.
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