Member Since: 14 Oct 2013
Location: 'Sunny' Zomerset
Posts: 9424
Hawkeye Diagnostic tool
Anybody know anything about these, are they any good, can you change anything in the car with them, or do they just read the codes
Cheers Iggy/Ieuan
Current LR =
2015 RR Sport Autobiography
&
1992 Land Rover Defender Camper
- Gone but not forgotten:
MY10 D4 GS
MY05 Disco 3 'S'
MY14 FL2 HSE manual in Blue
MY15 Disco 4 HSE Lux in Santorini Black
MY08 Disco 3 SE manual in Buck Blue
1960 Series 2 88" (No idea why I sold it!)
3rd Jan 2014 2:30 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
The are just a servicing and LR specific fault code tool; they cannot do reprogramming.
They are very good at what they do and are pretty much idiot proof - I like them.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 14 Oct 2013
Location: 'Sunny' Zomerset
Posts: 9424
Idiot proof = I will also like them
Or is it worth stumping up a bit more to get a reprogramming one?Iggy/Ieuan
Current LR =
2015 RR Sport Autobiography
&
1992 Land Rover Defender Camper
- Gone but not forgotten:
MY10 D4 GS
MY05 Disco 3 'S'
MY14 FL2 HSE manual in Blue
MY15 Disco 4 HSE Lux in Santorini Black
MY08 Disco 3 SE manual in Buck Blue
1960 Series 2 88" (No idea why I sold it!)
3rd Jan 2014 2:49 pm
dingdongs
Member Since: 30 May 2012
Location: St. Lawrence Bay Essex
Posts: 186
quite happy with my hawkeye and will let you read and reset any faults that are not repetitive.Service resets too and is not vin locked so can read other peoples faults and you can sell on at a later date if you wish.i chose for d3 but extra packages available for defender .rr td5 freelander etc if you wish to read the codes.the vin lock free made me choose this but if faults that are out of my knowledge then its off to a main dealer but never been there yet!
live values on injectors suspension etc but will not allow you to change heights but allows you to do many things that a cheaper diagnostics mc would not allow.
3rd Jan 2014 3:25 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
For the average user I would suggest that it is better to get one of the forum sponsors to do any major reprogramming. You buy their knowledge, their experience and they will have all the right kit to hand to stop your car from being bricked. For most owners getting stuff enabled is a once-only thing.
For other that like to tinker or willing to take on more challenges then a reprogramming tool is good to have. For those doing DIY diagnostics the ability to have comprehensive live data is just as important.
With the burst of Nanocom and IID Tool sales recently I am sure we will see a fair number of users that get themselves into a bind. I already wince when I read of people reprogramming without good battery support; they are just throwing the dice.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 10 Aug 2012
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 331
As Robbie cautions, with great power comes great responsibility.
Also if your D3/D4 is running just fine on the software version it has, there really isn't a big win win on making it "the latest". I know it's something we get sucked into with Windows and Mac updates to our devices but hold back
3rd Jan 2014 3:52 pm
geoff.
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: West kent
Posts: 8531
Robbie wrote:
. I already wince when I read of people reprogramming without good battery support; they are just throwing the dice.
Well said
3rd Jan 2014 4:30 pm
alex_pescaru
Member Since: 19 Dec 2010
Location: RO
Posts: 270
I believe that this battery support is a little overrated... Not saying it isn't good, but just overrated.
From my experience, all microcontrollers from car's ECUs are working at low voltages like 5V and below. For example, the microcontroller from your IPCs is working at any voltage between 3.5 to 5.5V and internally there is a step down circuitry to supply it's core at 1.8V.
Also the flashing process is done at the same low voltages. There are voltage regulators that make that low voltage and keep it stable when input voltage varies and this input voltage could be as low as 6-7V.
In my experience with hundreds of module flashing, I didn't have a single, unintentional, failure. And for testing purposes I've powered many of them at 7-8V. And even then, all were successfully flashed.
So, many times, the reason for failing should be looked elsewhere...
And even if the flashing process is failing, the primary bootloader of these ECUs, primary bootloader which is very well protected for failing, will allow you to repeat the flashing process as many times as you want and therefore you can't brick it. Of course, these are all true if all other conditions are meet, like no hardware failure, no flashing software failure, etc.
Just my 2 cents...
3rd Jan 2014 5:21 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
I'm sure the individual modules can flash at low voltages as it is part of their specification and it is reassuring that it works in real-world tests. I have seen reprogramming go bad at low voltages though and whilst these have been recoverable it would produce a fair amount of angst.
Once the power starts to drop the LR load-shedding can kick-in and it powers down a number of systems to preserve critical functions. I'm not sure I would want this process to start mid-programming. Unfortunately Alex not all of us have your commendable level of skill and knowledge!
My 1 cent, which has a little less value than Alex's.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
If other modules are powering down due to low voltage is nothing than good for the flashing process.
Less "noise" on the CAN BUS...
But...
A good flashing tool will broadcast at the beginning of the flashing process, on a functional CAN ID the "switch to programming session mode" command. Session mode that will be kept active, at the same functional CAN ID. And it's known that on a functional CAN ID, ALL modules are listening and complying with commands.
Standards are saying that once a module has entered programming session mode, will never enter or initiate the sleep procedure during that session.
So, on a good firmware/hardware, during flashing stage, no sleep/power down because of low battery...
I will stop here... Sorry for off-topic...
3rd Jan 2014 6:12 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Keep going Alex, learning is good!
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
Quote:
all microcontrollers from car's ECUs are working at low voltages
While that is mainly correct, unfortunately i believe it is completely irrelevant as we are talking about Flash Memory devices, not microcontrollers.
Flash memories use much higher voltages to erase and store Data bits typically using in built charge pump generators.
However as Alex states, the PBL and SBL functionality should indeed mean that it is absolutely impossible to completely loose an ECU that cannot be recovered and so indeed the cause for any failure must as Alex correctly states be looked for elsewhere.
I submit the currently unproven and rare possibility that some flash memory devices fitted to these ECU's may be faulty, or have become faulty over time and that this is something that would not discovered until someone tries to re flash them with whatever equipment.
Unlike SSD's etc these ECU's were never designed or had code added to map out even one failed byte in their flash memory.
As has been stated, it is better you do not try to fix or update anything that is not broken.
ATB
Colin
Last edited by BBS SPY on 4th Jan 2014 3:38 pm. Edited 2 times in total
3rd Jan 2014 6:30 pm
alex_pescaru
Member Since: 19 Dec 2010
Location: RO
Posts: 270
Robbie wrote:
Keep going Alex, learning is good!
Thanks for understanding.
Quote:
While that is absolutely correct, unfortunately i believe it is completely irrelevant as we are talking about Flash Memory devices, not microcontrollers.
As many ECU's have the flash memory inside the main chip, this is why I was referring to them as microcontrollers. For some other ECUs, yes, external flash memories.
Sorry for my lack of clearness in expressing my ideas... Not a native English speaker...
For example, on the Instrument Panel I was mentioned before, the firmware is written directly inside the main microcontroller (MB91F013, from Fujitsu/Spansion) which has 512 Kb of internal flash memory, mapped from 0x00080000 to 0x000FFFFF.
In the end, yes, it's still a flash memory, internal or not, that's subject of failures.
But, in the same time, a badly written piece of software could, in the same way, render a module (apparently) useless/bricked, isn't it?...
3rd Jan 2014 7:18 pm
Iguana
Member Since: 14 Oct 2013
Location: 'Sunny' Zomerset
Posts: 9424
Well, that seals it...no re-programming for me, afraid I'll make things worse! All ready confused
Iggy/Ieuan
Current LR =
2015 RR Sport Autobiography
&
1992 Land Rover Defender Camper
- Gone but not forgotten:
MY10 D4 GS
MY05 Disco 3 'S'
MY14 FL2 HSE manual in Blue
MY15 Disco 4 HSE Lux in Santorini Black
MY08 Disco 3 SE manual in Buck Blue
1960 Series 2 88" (No idea why I sold it!)
3rd Jan 2014 10:20 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20837
The Hawkeye is fairly basic. IT will read and clear fault codes, read live data, reset service warnings, calibrate new EPB module, calibrate steering angle sensor, reset FBH (but needs a seperate adaptor)
It will not program any modules, nor edit any CCF entriesMy D3 Build Thread
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