Member Since: 29 Jul 2013
Location: Zeebrugge
Posts: 108
I located the relays ans tested them singular witch a power supply and measured them out.
They seem to bee working (out of the car).
Can't find the problem!
Have no voltage on the back doors. The motors are fine (tested them witch a power supply)
Any one?
10th Nov 2013 11:17 am
F355GTS
Member Since: 10 Nov 2008
Location: North Hampshire
Posts: 849
I would check the switch in the drivers door that disables the rear windows, not sure if you can short the switch and then test for voltage in the rear doorsMark
10th Nov 2013 11:19 am
Glenn of Belgium
Member Since: 29 Jul 2013
Location: Zeebrugge
Posts: 108
Rear window problem fixed for now...
Hello,
By pulling out the lower cable (without electrical juice) out of the CJB and putting it back, everything seems to be working fine now.
Don't know yet if it was a bat connection or a reset of the CJB-print?
As for now the problem is solved...
I keep you'll posted if it occures again.
Regards from Belgium!
Glenn
14th Nov 2013 1:23 pm
Glenn of Belgium
Member Since: 29 Jul 2013
Location: Zeebrugge
Posts: 108
They are dead again!
Pulling the plugs out probably dit some reset inside the cjb.
Maybe before the summer come's I will be able to use the rear windows?
I hope to locate the problem.
The loom seems ok,
the plugs in the doors OK
Motors are stiil ok
Fuses are ok
door switches are ok
Last edited by Glenn of Belgium on 9th Feb 2014 7:29 pm. Edited 1 time in total
14th Jan 2014 11:46 am
Glenn of Belgium
Member Since: 29 Jul 2013
Location: Zeebrugge
Posts: 108
I'm back again, this time with a solution.
Problem location: Malfunctioning fet's in the CJB that are ment to feed the power to the rear windows
This so called FET's can't be removed on an easy way and buying an new CJB is a
difficult case as it is VIN coded!
Solution:
Make a permanent bypass from the 12V sigarette lighter relay on the CJB as shown in the
picture below. (the power comes from the battery junction box and is fused with a 50A fuse)
This relay feed is in a switched circuit with the contact car key, so the power will be OFF to
the windows as the contact is in '0' and turned ON in position '1' and '2'. There will be no
timed function on the rear windows again after switching the contact OFF. Otherwise
everything rear window function will work normally. The timer on the front window will not be
affected as they are in a complete other circuit.
Click image to enlarge
U will need some wires and cable shoes in order to fix it, the relay stays the same.
Step by step:
Make shure the contact is OFF or remove the battery negative for safety.
1) take out the 20A fuses in the CJB from the rear windows (17 & 31)
2) plug out the relay R1 (the one on top of the two smaller ones)
3) make extension cables to the relay (R1) about 20cm long
4) make an extra wire that splits towards 2 lead fuses (at least 15A)
5) plug the relay cables into the relay input on the CJB
6) plug each of the fused extra cables into the UPPER contacts of F17 and F31 by means of a 3mm flat
cable shoe.
7) make shure the cables and the relay is properly attached with tieraps...
I appreciate the electrical hookup drawing and the effort it took to add it to the thread.
It may be that as the 3 ages, more of those FET relays will fail and we will all have to find alternative solutions that negate the need to replace the Central Junction Box as being the only solution. Your post shows us a way.
I would say you are now a leader in developing alternative fixes.2005 LR3 HSE 4.4L AJ-V8 petrol; Traxide Dual Battery; PIAA 2500K Yellow Ion H11 Fog Light bulbs; CounterAct LT-2 Capacitive Corrosion control; LLumar AIR80 Blue clear Infra Red blocking side window film; Liftgate manual release; Schrader Valve "air in" mod to OEM air suspension reservoir tank; Akebono ceramic pads; OEM solid vented discs; LR4 design hitch receiver; Wiggs D4 MOST bluetooth module; Clock on the Dash; 3 Flash signal light mod; Backup Camera; 2015/16 Nav Data update.
9th Feb 2014 5:44 pm
Glenn of Belgium
Member Since: 29 Jul 2013
Location: Zeebrugge
Posts: 108
bbyer,
Thanks but i'm no developper...maybe in some little things
Just looking for some simple solution without going trough the bulkhead and stuff...
I Don't know how many fet's there are in the CJB bur if we have to beleave several dealers they didn't have to replace any CJB's...
Anyway, i will enjoy opening the windows this summer 8)
There are lots of FET's on the printed circuit board. They do have a use however and can do things that relays cannot. I think with reference to the power windows, the FET's remember how many amps it normally takes to close a window and if the number is exceeded by some amount, the power is shut off to the window, or may even reverse and come back down. I think this applies to the drivers window and perhaps to all of them.
A bit late to mention it now, but in what position is the Rear Window Isolation rocker switch on the drivers door power window control? If the little X symbol side is down, (right hand side of switch), that may have been the problem or perhaps the switch is not working.
I found the following paragraph in the Owners Manual.
Rear window operation: The rear windows can also be operated from the switches on the rear passenger doors. The rear door window switches will not operate if the isolating switch in the driver’s door has been activated, see Rear window isolation switch on page 117 of the Owners Manual.2005 LR3 HSE 4.4L AJ-V8 petrol; Traxide Dual Battery; PIAA 2500K Yellow Ion H11 Fog Light bulbs; CounterAct LT-2 Capacitive Corrosion control; LLumar AIR80 Blue clear Infra Red blocking side window film; Liftgate manual release; Schrader Valve "air in" mod to OEM air suspension reservoir tank; Akebono ceramic pads; OEM solid vented discs; LR4 design hitch receiver; Wiggs D4 MOST bluetooth module; Clock on the Dash; 3 Flash signal light mod; Backup Camera; 2015/16 Nav Data update.
9th Feb 2014 7:45 pm
Glenn of Belgium
Member Since: 29 Jul 2013
Location: Zeebrugge
Posts: 108
Hello bbyer,
Thank for your reply but there whas nothing wrong with the isolation switch.
That was one of the first things i checked
I'm a satisfied the way they are working now. I can open and close them like i wan't and also isolate the power by the isolation switch.
I realy don't know what Land Rover whas thinking when they choose fet's instead of the normal lift relay's that can be easily changed... ok, Fet's can do more but as I now experianced the d mn things can fail and than you have nothing but trouble.
That is interesting; I would have thought the isolation switch was now out of the circuit.
I will have to look at the circuit again.
And yes, I would like to see a few more mechanical relays and a little less magic.
I was playing with the radio system and have run into the optical bus reality. The speaker signals all travel out of the radio within the optical light signal down to the amp where they are sorted with software and then sent down normal wires to the analogue speakers.
I figure at some point, the speakers will be digital as well and then I will be totally beat.2005 LR3 HSE 4.4L AJ-V8 petrol; Traxide Dual Battery; PIAA 2500K Yellow Ion H11 Fog Light bulbs; CounterAct LT-2 Capacitive Corrosion control; LLumar AIR80 Blue clear Infra Red blocking side window film; Liftgate manual release; Schrader Valve "air in" mod to OEM air suspension reservoir tank; Akebono ceramic pads; OEM solid vented discs; LR4 design hitch receiver; Wiggs D4 MOST bluetooth module; Clock on the Dash; 3 Flash signal light mod; Backup Camera; 2015/16 Nav Data update.
11th Feb 2014 7:36 pm
ryanpaulaf1
Member Since: 02 May 2017
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1
Glenn of Belgium, I just came across your post about the rear window issue. I have a 2007 LR3 SE model. Both rear windows have stopped working. Happened once, then they came back on, but now nothing. I've tried everything you tried before your re-wire solution. My question is, do you think you could email me or just post on here, some more specific instructions on how to wire the relay? I just wanna make sure I understand everything before I do it. Also, is the CJB, the fuel panel under the passenger side dash, behind the lower glove box? Great find however, I'm glad someone found something and I hope this helps my situation. Thanks again.
2nd May 2017 7:44 pm
jmutts
Member Since: 08 Oct 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2
I just had the rear windows on my 2009 LR3 stop working for what appears to be the same reason.
Glenn, thanks for investigating and figuring out the root cause of the problem. I was able to sort this out pretty quickly after finding your post about the lack of power to the relay.
One thing about your fix, though, is it's a little overkill unless I'm completely missing something...
By sending power directly into the fuse connections you're bypassing the relay entirely. There's no need to wire it back into the CJB as it is no longer controlling the flow of power to the windows anymore.
You essentially have two choices:
1. Assuming the issue is power getting *to* the relay (note: I didn't confirm this, I went with option 2 below), you can keep it and get power to it from another source so that it operates as if it was working as normal. This also means you can keep the existing fuses as-is, and wiring it very similarly as described above; or:
2. Remove the relay entirely and run power directly to windows via the fuse connections, with some inline fuses.
I also used the cigarette lighter relay to get power, so if you want to keep the existing relay you would hook it up like so:
If you want to skip the relay all together, you can remove the existing fuses and do it like this:
Note that the connection to the cigarette relay is different - when bypassing R1 we're using the side that is switched by the relay, not the side that is always hot.
I opted to remove the relay entirely. I also found some forked terminals fit nicely in the fuse connectors, and by using both sides they were quite stable.
To get the power I needed, I removed the cigarette lighter relay, and wedged the single end of the wire into the terminal I wanted, then put the relay back in. It's a tight fit, but hold snugly
The windows are working perfectly now, and are only enabled when the key is turned to Accessory or Run, which I *think* is the old behaviour but I never really paid much attention to it.
Isolation switch still works as expected as well.
Hopefully this helps the next person to stumble onto this!
19th Oct 2017 5:19 pm
Nh850R
Member Since: 22 Jul 2019
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 3
Hi I’m new on here and joined today, I have just brought my wife a 57 plate TDV6 to replace our XC90 which we had for 7 years and was a pleasure to own, since my boys have got bigger we needed to get a bigger 7 seater so hence the Disc.
It seems good so far but the rear windows have been temperamental on a few occasions hence replying to your post.
Is it one wire from lighter that you join onto 2 separate ones and put inline fuses in both? The pictures are great but just need to check as I’m a bit OCD when it comes to messing with electrics.
Cheers
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rear windows?
