Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Worthing
Posts: 384
Timing Belt change Causing Sticky Turbo Valve?
Hi all,
Been a while since I posted.
Took the car to a High Street mechanic for service and MOT: amongst a few other things, they suggested getting timing belt changed (last time was about 6 years ago so it was due soon anyway).
So I thought, it's a make that's been around for a while now, and whilst it's tricky, it shouldn't be beyond the ken of the mechanics there, and I have other basic suspension work that needs done, and why not, as they are just around the corner, no faffing about with dropoffs and pickups, etc.
I goofed. Please don't rub it in.
Car was running pretty well when I dropped it off. They changed the belt then did the suspension work. Then they took if for a ride to report back that there was no power getting to the engine. And that there was an EGR fault. I explained the EGR had been blanked off anyway. So they tried a different belt (this time an OEM ).
Still no joy. They spent two days trying to fix it.
Initial vibes from the manager was that it was nowt to do with them. However, the mechanic was more conceding that it was running when it came in, it's not running now, and they would pay for a car rental for SWMBO in the meantime until they get it fixed (at their expense if it is down to them).
Two weeks since bringing it in, it is sitting at the stealers for diagnostics (as all the indies around were booked up for over a month).
Dealer came back to me just now to say they got an error for a sticky turbo valve. I've asked the guy to come back to me to confirm whether or not this can be caused by the timing belt change being done incorrectly.
I've since used my trusty Brave AI, and it has come back with sticky turbo valves being caused by incorrect timing belt replacement. But I can't find a direct reference so that I can point to it.
Anyone have any direct references they can point me to, or, barring that, any words of wisdom or comfort?
I want the car fixed, I don't want a new one, but I don't want to spend 5k to fix it. We've only put 140k miles on it. And she would be missed.55-Reg Java Black SE, Unlocked SatNav (via Wiggs and Bodsy), Nudge Bar/Driving Lamps/RAI, Front & Rear Lamp Guards, RLD Sump Plate, RLD spare wheel protector
"Every movie-going moron knows that only a mining company could be evil enough to attack Smurfs living in a rainforest." - Doug Casey
3rd Oct 2024 3:28 pm
Worms
Member Since: 24 Sep 2023
Location: Highlands
Posts: 415
I know this doesn't answer your direct question about the timing belt, but...
There are threads on here for how to free-up a sticky turbo actuator rod, so trying that might be worth a shot before spending any silly money on a new valve. If you don't want to DIY that, then passing the info to your garage might let them try.
https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/turbo-actua...05694.htmlPreviously:
2010 FL2 TD4e GS
‘93 Defender 110 200TDi CSW - still got this, non-runner on SORN.
‘87 Defender 90 4 cyl Petrol
‘83 110 CSW V8 - best ever!
Range Rover 2-door V8 (not sure of year - 4-speed box and vacuum diff switch)
Series III SWB Diesel
3rd Oct 2024 6:54 pm
JamesG01
Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Worthing
Posts: 384
Thanks for this. It will be worth looking into should we get no joy about them fixing the mess. Then it's onto the insurance legal advice line.
We've since found for a lot of other makes of cars an incorrect timing belt replacement can definitely cause turbo problems.
We've definitely not had the telltale signs of an outgoing turbo, anyway. So fingers crossed.55-Reg Java Black SE, Unlocked SatNav (via Wiggs and Bodsy), Nudge Bar/Driving Lamps/RAI, Front & Rear Lamp Guards, RLD Sump Plate, RLD spare wheel protector
"Every movie-going moron knows that only a mining company could be evil enough to attack Smurfs living in a rainforest." - Doug Casey
3rd Oct 2024 7:28 pm
JamesG01
Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Worthing
Posts: 384
Update
Stealers reported a few other things wrong with the car which are due to said High Street shop's mechanics as they were the last to touch each of those areas.
However, they were a bit more reticent in linking the turbo failure to a cam belt change. Possibly because said High Street shop was paying for the diagnosis. They said it could be down to that, but wouldn't say it was likely. Honour amongst thieves, I suppose.
However, we have had none of the telltale signs of turbo about to sh** the bed.
But said High Street shop is claiming nowt to do with them now, turbo just failed while they had it. It does that apparently.
Called the AA and the guy there begged to differ and has given us the number of an independent inspector to check it out.
So it looks like the car is with them until we pay up. Or we get them to pay out.55-Reg Java Black SE, Unlocked SatNav (via Wiggs and Bodsy), Nudge Bar/Driving Lamps/RAI, Front & Rear Lamp Guards, RLD Sump Plate, RLD spare wheel protector
"Every movie-going moron knows that only a mining company could be evil enough to attack Smurfs living in a rainforest." - Doug Casey
4th Oct 2024 4:33 pm
JamesG01
Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Worthing
Posts: 384
Update for those who might be curious...
We did the sums for having the turbo repaired by an Indie and it was still cheaper than getting a new car over the next five years. And also almost accepted the possibility that it could have been the turbo finally getting knackered from wear and tear.
SWMBO found an Indie further afield from us (Sussex Vehicle Services) who could have a look at it.
They put a camera down it and found damaged turbo vanes.
Click image to enlarge
He concluded and put in writing that he's certain it was caused by something falling into the turbo intake pipe during the cambelt change, as that's the only time it would have been exposed. We were quoted £3k for the diagnosis work and to replace with a refurbished turbo.
Sent photo to said High Street mechanics, and got a bit of dithering. As it had been almost a month without a car I asked SVS to go ahead and do the repairs.
Got the car back last Friday, and still no real constructive response from the High Street mechanics other than a few verbal assurances that his boss was looking at things and he'd get back.
I have now sent a letter of intent to go to Small Claims Court for the repairs, the cost of a week's car rental, the removal costs to the Indie, and a few taxi trips. Hopefully that will expedite the matter.
Thanks for reading.55-Reg Java Black SE, Unlocked SatNav (via Wiggs and Bodsy), Nudge Bar/Driving Lamps/RAI, Front & Rear Lamp Guards, RLD Sump Plate, RLD spare wheel protector
"Every movie-going moron knows that only a mining company could be evil enough to attack Smurfs living in a rainforest." - Doug Casey
31st Oct 2024 7:25 pm
Icarus
Member Since: 15 Jul 2023
Location: Essex
Posts: 107
That’s a sad tale!! Sorry to hear it and I hope it turns out well for you. Stick to your guns in the Court, hopefully they’ll see your detailed story backed up by technical expertise, and find for you. Good luck.I’m a Disco 4 believer. What a vehicle!
31st Oct 2024 7:34 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5061
JamesG01 wrote:
They put a camera down it and found damaged turbo vanes.
Click image to enlarge
He concluded and put in writing that he's certain it was caused by something falling into the turbo intake pipe during the cambelt change, as that's the only time it would have been exposed.
He's correct, and likely a tool left near the open intake pipe fell in and was sucked into the turbo when the engine was started. The mechanic who worked on the car must know this as someone had to retrieve whatever fell in there!
It's a schoolboy error and many on here have had rags, cloths, or other wipes sucked in having forgotten to remove them before starting the engine. The other question you might ask your indie is where are the chunks of aluminium that are clearly been gouged from the turbo intake impellor?
They may be stuck in the intercooler tubes awaiting their onward journey to be ingested by the engine. Or, they may well have already completed that journey and if so were hopefully exhausted without further damage to the engine. yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
31st Oct 2024 8:05 pm
JamesG01
Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Worthing
Posts: 384
Thanks,
Yes, part of the itemised activities in the invoice from the indie was checking all pipes for foreign objects. Hopefully it was a thorough check Actually they were very good and no-nonsense, so despite them being a bit out of our way, we will be going to them from now on.
Now that you mention it, it could very well have been a tool of some sort. And now that I've been thinking about it there is no doubt they knew something was wrong when they started the engine and were hoping nothing would have come of it, and that I might go away.
On a more positive note, I don't have to worry any more about the turbo packing it in any time soon.55-Reg Java Black SE, Unlocked SatNav (via Wiggs and Bodsy), Nudge Bar/Driving Lamps/RAI, Front & Rear Lamp Guards, RLD Sump Plate, RLD spare wheel protector
"Every movie-going moron knows that only a mining company could be evil enough to attack Smurfs living in a rainforest." - Doug Casey
31st Oct 2024 8:53 pm
loanrangie
Member Since: 18 Jun 2017
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 705
You might find the remnants of a 10mm socket coming out of your exhaust
1st Nov 2024 12:24 am
JamesG01
Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Worthing
Posts: 384
Icarus wrote:
That’s a sad tale!! Sorry to hear it and I hope it turns out well for you. Stick to your guns in the Court, hopefully they’ll see your detailed story backed up by technical expertise, and find for you. Good luck.
Thank you very much. Yes, I don't think there's much they can say. I'm really hoping my letter of intent is enough to get them to settle it, as otherwise, knowing what I know about working with solicitors in a corporate environment, it would cost them at least what I am asking just for charges from their inhouse legal.55-Reg Java Black SE, Unlocked SatNav (via Wiggs and Bodsy), Nudge Bar/Driving Lamps/RAI, Front & Rear Lamp Guards, RLD Sump Plate, RLD spare wheel protector
"Every movie-going moron knows that only a mining company could be evil enough to attack Smurfs living in a rainforest." - Doug Casey
1st Nov 2024 6:45 am
JamesG01
Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Worthing
Posts: 384
loanrangie wrote:
You might find the remnants of a 10mm socket coming out of your exhaust
Yeah...hope not. 55-Reg Java Black SE, Unlocked SatNav (via Wiggs and Bodsy), Nudge Bar/Driving Lamps/RAI, Front & Rear Lamp Guards, RLD Sump Plate, RLD spare wheel protector
"Every movie-going moron knows that only a mining company could be evil enough to attack Smurfs living in a rainforest." - Doug Casey
Seen this before. When I was doing Cambelts, the first thing I did, after removing the air pipe was to blank off the pipe to stop this happening.
Flack
1st Nov 2024 8:26 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5061
Yep, I use a disposable glove. yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
1st Nov 2024 12:19 pm
Captain Crosscheck
Member Since: 03 Sep 2021
Location: Oslo
Posts: 345
FFS, that's a rookie mistake. Even I put a disposable glove over my air tubes, and I'm no pro like Flack or The Professor.
Best of luck with your claim!
1st Nov 2024 1:57 pm
JamesG01
Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Worthing
Posts: 384
A final update...
They've just got back to me and told me they will pay for all the expenses incurred as a result of this.
So in the end, it worked out.55-Reg Java Black SE, Unlocked SatNav (via Wiggs and Bodsy), Nudge Bar/Driving Lamps/RAI, Front & Rear Lamp Guards, RLD Sump Plate, RLD spare wheel protector
"Every movie-going moron knows that only a mining company could be evil enough to attack Smurfs living in a rainforest." - Doug Casey
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).
Actually they were very good and no-nonsense, so despite them being a bit out of our way, we will be going to them from now on.
