Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
aha.... well i think it is rather easy to do, and normally everthing you need to exhange is on the "old" LR engine
as discribed above and vieuwable on a few Youtube videos from others... exhanging/replacing the neccessary LR parts wil cost a full day's work/labour approx...
BUT a BARE exchange engine from LR wil also need replacing the same stuff.. (exept the lower oil part)
i wanted to get the bottom-end off anyway as i will fit it with new bearings...Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
25th Feb 2020 5:05 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
Turbo refurbishment:
since the turbo on my D3 has 158900 km (approx 98800 mls) "on it's clock) i think it is a good moment to refurbish it... easy acces now and a very easy job...
i did it before on our SAAB Aero turbo (300 HP 400Nm) with a balanced set from APS Turbo a dutch company(i have no connection with them) that turbo is still going strong... so
this is a very simple job to do yourself... few bolts each side to undo, cleaning the housing etc. plug & playBest regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
27th Feb 2020 12:51 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10360
I struggled getting the turbo apart. Tried heating it up.
27th Feb 2020 1:05 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
Well, yeahhh if there is dirt and corrosion, it can be a bigger challenge indeed, but normally, WD40, patience, heating the alloy, a good mallet (copper or nylon) or maybe ultrasonic cleaning, can and will do the job... normallyBest regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
27th Feb 2020 1:17 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4626
Motolab wrote:
Turbo refurbishment:
since the turbo on my D3 has 158900 km (approx 98800 mls) "on it's clock) i think it is a good moment to refurbish it... easy acces now and a very easy job...
i did it before on our SAAB Aero turbo (300 HP 400Nm) with a balanced set from APS Turbo a dutch company(i have no connection with them) that turbo is still going strong... so
this is a very simple job to do yourself... few bolts each side to undo, cleaning the housing etc. plug & play
That's very handy to know Motolab as I could previously only find the parts but then it needed to be balanced. This would already be a balanced cassette so no need to send it to specialist.
Great post yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
27th Feb 2020 2:25 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
You are welcome
yeahh i experimented also with bearing kits etc.. in the past, but as you said the balancing has to be done if you want to do it to a high standard... this cassette kit is balanced indeed, comes with a "report" (for what it is worth) and since the bearing kits themselves are also not entirely free, i think this is the "best" DIY solution..
i did order an extra mounting kit with it because i wanted to be sure everything is at hand when the D3 is in the garage workshop when transplaning the engine, where i have to pay for each hour.. and i have only one turbo... so can not prepare it in advance... but i think you do not necessarily need everything from that kit..
Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
27th Feb 2020 2:55 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
Some more findings
Yesterday, I finally had the acquired JAG engine hoisted in the workshop stand for further analysis and to dismount every part not needed for the D3...
after the removal of the crankcase breather collector box (who differs itself between JAG&LR to my surprise!
left LR type Right: JAG type
UPDATE 02 march ‘20
After having a proper look at the breather system, on the ‘05 (MY06) engine from my LRD3 after the body removal, i did see that the MY06 breather system IS The same breather system as the ‘08 JAG engine!
The difference on the pictures above is between LR EU3 & EU4 ....
So definitely EVERYtHING on top of the JAG S-type EU4 TDV6 is the same as the EU3 LR engine *)
*) apart from the injectors by VDO code/partnumber..... although is runs very smooth on them for now...
I checked the HPFP on partnumber level which was to see after removal of the Breather stuff... it confirmed what I wrote earlyer... the JAG EU4 HPFP from a late ‘07/early ‘08 engine is the same as a EU3 LR fuel system..
I did upload earlyer a VDO document to my galley for general interest
In this document there is a cross reference list for this model pump..
edit: image addedBest regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
Last edited by Motolab on 2nd Apr 2020 10:19 pm. Edited 4 times in total
2nd Mar 2020 11:52 am
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
Crankshaft balanced?
Just opened the bottom end of the JAG engine..
And see some written markings on the crankshaft itself...
Difficult to read, even more difficult to photograph...
I bought the engine as a ‘08, what could be wrong ofcourse...
Looking at the production stamps on almost every metal and plastic part, there is ‘06 on it as production stamp... one of the written markings, contains also ‘06 .....
Are JAG engines different balanced than LR engines? Could also be a regrind (early in it’s life) but I do not recognise markings, like undersize? At least not the way I am used to...
Maybe the balance factor is written on it?
Any suggestions?Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
2nd Mar 2020 5:01 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
well, not regrinded i know now since the bearing shells are STD
maybe for general interest...
before i did take al look at the crank of the aquired JAG engine, i bought new big-end shells and main bearings for it..
changing the Big-end shells and Mainbearings on an engine although it has only 68K miles on the clock, why? well you can see it here..
the left shell is from the JAG (upper shell, piston side of the conrod) 68K miles and the right one is from a LR engine (who i bought for the sump (and a "good" crank to rebuild the broken LR engine from my D3) with double the distance...140K Miles
you can clearly see the double amount of wear.... (in this case) the right one is worn through the white metal AND the 1st copper layer, the left one only through the firs tlayer of white metal
the lower shells are all "as new" on both engine's
All "upper" shells have the same wear patern
IMHO, if you have the chance to change them, do it! it may extend the life of an engine extensively
Edits; typoBest regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
Last edited by Motolab on 4th Mar 2020 11:39 pm. Edited 2 times in total
2nd Mar 2020 10:58 pm
mid-devon-disco-3
Member Since: 01 Apr 2018
Location: mid devon
Posts: 7
I currently have a jag sat outside waiting to have the engine ripped out and i also have a dead disco 3 outside crying out for its engine..
I did find the salvage video on you tube very useful.
following this with interest..
4th Mar 2020 12:21 pm
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2863
Motolab wrote:
well, not regrinded i know now since the bearing shells are STD
maybe for general interest...
before i did take al look at the crank of the aquired JAG engine, i bought new big-end shells and main bearings for it..
changing the Big-end shells and Mainbearings on an engine although it has only 68K miles on the clock, why? well you can see it here..
the left shell is from the JAG (upper shell, piston side of the conrod) 68K miles and the right one is from a LR engine (who i bought for the sump (and a "good" crank to rebuild the broken LR engine from my D3) with double the distance...140K Miles
you can clearly see the double the amount of wear.... (in this case) the right one is worn through the white metal AND the copper layer, the left one only through the firs tlayer of white metal
the lower shells are all "as new" on both engine's
All "upper" shells have the same wear patern
IMHO, if you have the chance to change them, do it! it may extend the life of an engine extensively
Have often wondered if there would be a value in doing a bearing replacement - what is the crank measuring like on the good crank that has done 140k?Must stop buying shiny toys....
4th Mar 2020 12:30 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
Hi darrind,
well you know the answer now
my approach on otherwise "good" engines is rather pragmatic regarding the crank...
bearing shell replacement is always a good idea as you can see above. As long as only the softmetal layers of the shells show wear, and there are no signs of oil starvation or poluding the normaly much harder crank itself should not be worrn (oval) or atleast can do a lot of miles with "only"new bearing shells.
the OEM Ford shells have a few soft metal layers.. white metal, copper, white metal and copper, then steel (i think)..
on the 140K shells i see 2 layers worn through (one white metal & one copper) so it is on its second white metal layer, with the first copper comming through.. i presume after that second copper layer there is steel and then crank taps themselves will be damaged..by steel on steel
you can change the Big-end shells with the motor still mounted in the car.... this is not desirable for main bearings, although you could do number 1 (if you do the oilpump as well) and 2 & 3 i suppose (number 4 has the flywheel on it, the weight of both could damage the oil seal maybe)...if you do them one by one, with only slightly loosen the others..
But were to end? is always the question... what i did read here on the forum, if main bearings spin.. it seems always one of the inner one's who go, and then taking the big-ends with them after that..
so i would opt for 2 mainbearings and 6 big-ends if the milage is there and if you have the opportunity and/or money..
if i go all the way (regrind) i would also go for balancing, doing valves and guides, etc. but then there is no real end Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
4th Mar 2020 1:05 pm
darrind
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: In A World of My Own!
Posts: 2863
Agreed there is always a temptation to 'whilst I'm there I might as well do this as well' and you can go to extremes
However as you have it all out and Im assuming that you will be doing other things whilst the body is off you will have quite a lengthy listMust stop buying shiny toys....
4th Mar 2020 1:44 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
Yup... but my (original) engine is still in the motor....
as i can do engine work myself (we do motorcycles as a living) we do not have the equipment, space and time to do the engine swap ourselves, but asked a workshop to do the Swap itself..
i have a JAG engine as a replacement and a extra LR bottom-end so i can prepare the engine in my spare time in the evenings and weekends..
i have decided to use a young engine, do the bearing replacement (bottom end needs to be off-anyway), new belts, new upgraded oil pump, new waterpump, new tensioner, new turbo cassette and a new Denso airco pump... that is it.... all the hard to get by engine stuff... so to speak.. (and maybe a torque converter). that is it...
only if we experience bad things whilst body off, we managed these as well, but not prematurely... in the end, this motor did only do 158K Kilometers (98K MLS) in its life, dry stored throughout it life (and been shipped twice to australia and back to Germany again were i bought it..)Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
4th Mar 2020 2:53 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10360
that's gonna be expensive doing air con and torque convertor
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and back to Germany again were i bought it..)
