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RSC-90
Member Since: 29 Jan 2008
Location: Herts
Posts: 3
 
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| Starter Motor Failure TDV6 |
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Hi folks,
My 2006 TDV6 auto is causing me a lot of grief. It has completed 21k and has just sheared the end off the starter motor drive spindle. The end then whizzes around the bellhousing freely.
This is the THIRD time that this has happened.
Has this happened to anyone else? The dealer will only replace the motor as per minimal requirements, and seems unwilling to spend time diagnosing the problem further.
My only thought is that the motor is being misaligned during fitment, so unexpected forces are being applied to the motor drive shaft causing failure.
Any ideas anyone?? Anyone else had similar experiences??
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 29th Jan 2008 12:41 am |
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DN
D3 Decade
Member Since: 24 Jun 2006
Location: W.London.
Posts: 2293
 
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Hi RSC-90, and welcome, mine is about the same age and mileage,(and has suffered my daughter turning the key to engage the starter with the engine already running  ), but has not suffered this, and I haven't heard of this particular problem on here, (duff solenoids yes). Other than your suggestion about misalignment, does the starter struggle to turn the engine at all, as if the engine is unusually tight?
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| 29th Jan 2008 12:54 am |
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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689
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I've had two new starter motors due to solenoid issues, but not the problem you describe  I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
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| 29th Jan 2008 1:08 am |
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RSC-90
Member Since: 29 Jan 2008
Location: Herts
Posts: 3
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Hello DND3,
No, not at all. Engages and starts like any other normal car should. No difference in cold weather either.
Just really looking for a reason as to why it has failed three times!!
I cant help but think that three must be a component missing from when the car was built. If this causes any misalignment (note: self created unproven theory of misalignment!) the it could be putting undesirable forces on the spindle, and until the dealer takes another vehicle to pieces to compare, or even cross check asembly or workshop manual drawings, then i fear the Disco will just keep eating motors.
It takes ages to fix as they have to split the auto box from the engine to let the broken bits drop out.
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| 29th Jan 2008 1:10 am |
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DN
D3 Decade
Member Since: 24 Jun 2006
Location: W.London.
Posts: 2293
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Well you are right to keep pursuing it, something isn't right, if it happens again(and you have any patience left), next time they take the 'box' off, insist that they look into it thoroughly, and if possible fit a new starter and check everything out before they refit the torque converter and g/box. ( I presume that may be possible, the starter ring should still be on the engine at that point).They should () be able to at least check that it can be aligned and not subject to an excessive side load from the starter ring gear, even if they have to subsequently remove the starter again to fit the T/c and box. Good Luck at any rate. 
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| 29th Jan 2008 1:26 am |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
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Sounds like a damaged starter ring. I presume that its still located on the flywheel  In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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| 29th Jan 2008 8:16 am |
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simonsi
Member Since: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 1264
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I agree with Andrew that my main suspect would be the ring gear, no point just fitting another starter without getting to the bottom of it. Cheers
Simon
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| 29th Jan 2008 10:20 am |
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DN
D3 Decade
Member Since: 24 Jun 2006
Location: W.London.
Posts: 2293
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That's what I mean by 'checking it out thoroughly', there are only 2 mechanical parts, the starter and the ring, but a problem with the ring gear may not be obvious, for instance a few damaged teeth would probably not cause the starter shaft to break off 3 times, whereas a ring gear that is not located squarely on the flywheel, or has been machined eccentrically (it can happen), would cause excessive side loads to the starter and continue to break any number of new starters. Things definately need to be looked at closely with the box off, if the problem isn't obvious, most technicians would just shove it back together (as they have, 3 times already). Turning the engine over by hand with an intact starter fitted and doing a bit of clearance checking  where the gears mesh would probably reveal the problem.
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| 29th Jan 2008 11:38 am |
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j,moore
Member Since: 26 Nov 2007
Location: out on the piste,
Posts: 139
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hi, the only time i have known a simlar fault is whith tractors. and this is usualy caused by shock loading the shaft by either-when turning the key to start it miss fires and the engine momentarely spins backwards but the starter shaft is still being driven forward and so the shaft snaps. or if the engine dose not emiediatly fire and you go to start it again before the engine has stoped turning this can shock it, again causing it to snap. the only other time i can think of is if the starter sticks in drive for some reason, and so when the engine starts, the starter motor is then spun at a speed far beyond intended whitch overheats the bearings causing them to seize up causing failure of the shaft.
in the discoverys case i think that it it could be (as mentioned above) an alignment problem and i would recomend that they change the starter ring on the flywheel and posibly even the flywheel. checking the alignment could be tricky if like the td5 engine the starter motor bolts to the bell housing on the gearbox and not to the engine making it almost imposible to inspect operation of parts.
i hope some of this helps,
good luck, jim
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| 29th Jan 2008 9:40 pm |
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RSC-90
Member Since: 29 Jan 2008
Location: Herts
Posts: 3
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Thaks for all your input guys! V helpful.
I fed this back to the main dealer, but I was too late as it seemed they'd had an energetic five minuites and had already swapped the motor, put the autobox back, driven disco off ramps, and left it waiting in car park for collection.
However, the service manager said that even so, they were only prepared to do the minimum work required under warranty rules to get the car back on the road. He did not seem at all keen on spending any time on diagnosis work, i.e., establishing if the flywheel or gear ring are indeed warped or eccentric. That distinct lack of 'willingess to help' now leaves me with a ticking timebomb Disco then..... 
I have no memory of potentially shock loading the motor through half start / restart actions, but i will definately be more careful following Mr Moore's tale...!
It seems this is a pretty unheard of problem, so it must be a rogue issue. Just have to see what happens (or get another Disco.... more cost... grrr...), but if it reflects previous timescales, you should see me writing about this all over again come about May time....
Cheers!
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| 30th Jan 2008 12:47 am |
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simonsi
Member Since: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 1264
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Raise it with LRCC, three starter failures esp of the same kind must be unheard of and demonstrates that the fix of just changing the starter will not be sufficient - unless LR want to claim a bad batch of starters that have only ever been fitted to your car???? Cheers
Simon
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| 30th Jan 2008 8:06 am |
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Flack
Member Since: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Preston Lancashire
Posts: 6232
 
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I would insist on the torque converter and the flywheel to be changed. If it has done three starter motors in then something has to out of alignment, This used to happen a lot on the old Rovers and the cause was that because the flywheels are not as beefy on Auto's it does not take much to bend them, not sure on the setup of the D3 auto but it will be a similar setup.
Flack
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| 30th Jan 2008 8:23 pm |
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