Member Since: 01 Nov 2016
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 8
Seized Knurled/toothed adjuster for the EPB shoes. What now?
UPDATE: read posts below.
As per the title I am trying to remove the rear discs to service the EPB but I can't unwind the adjuster for the brake shoes.
I pulled the manual EPB cable release but I can still hear and feel the shoes grinding the inside of the disc and can feel the disc turning with difficulty.
Tried the release agent and let sit over night method.
Tried the large flat screwdriver and hammer method.
Tried the grab the disc with plummer's pliers method.
Tried the rubber mallet on the disc method.
No joy.
I did manage to unscrew the 4mm hex bolt but it didn't make any difference.
The disc does move a bit on the hub and I can wiggle it but it seems to be catching when I try to take it off.
Running out of ideas at an alarming rate.
All opinions welcome.
Thanks!
Last edited by alexlr on 10th Jul 2019 7:43 pm. Edited 1 time in total
8th Jul 2019 2:20 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4657
Are you turning the adjuster in the right direction? You could try again with a heavy screwdriver to move it in either direction which might get it to give way. Its not unusual for shoe components to seize and can be a pain to disassemble. If you're prepared to replace the discs you may have to get tough with it and take extreme measures yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
8th Jul 2019 2:42 pm
Sea Raider
Member Since: 01 Nov 2016
Location: None
Posts: 4450
Last time I took a rear disc off I found it easier to use 2 screwdrivers, placed in the vent holes on the outside the disc at 180 degrees apart that way I was able to easy the disc off evenly
8th Jul 2019 2:43 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4657
I was going to suggest that too Graham but I think I had to use two long chisels hammered into the vent holes
It worked though only to find the offending handbrake rusted solid from sea salt yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
8th Jul 2019 2:50 pm
alexlr
Member Since: 01 Nov 2016
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 8
Thanks for the tips!
I think I am turning the adjuster the right way as per Bodsys's Brake Bible (LR in their wisdom didn't think they needed to specify the direction in the maintenance manual). Just to make sure: I am hitting the teeth on the side of the adjuster facing out away from the hub.
Was planing on keeping the disks since they look just fine. Can't know for sure what they look like inside in the drum area though - is it possible that the shoes have dug a lip in the disk drum ?
How tough are these little rascals? How big of an impact can I give them? I can already see dents in the teeth from the hammer and flat head screwdriver method and I am weary of doing something not very smart.
8th Jul 2019 3:14 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4657
You will be replacing the adjuster anyway along with all the other serviceable bits as they are bound to be rusted to some extent. (cheap)
As Sea Raider says, try inserting two strong screwdrivers into the vents at 180 deg apart. This will give you considerable leverage to "rock" the disc away from the hub. New discs are not expensive either, so a few sharp blows from a hammer on the sides of the drum will assist. If you're intent on keeping the discs do not hit the face of the drum where the wheel mates, or the braking surface of the disc.
Have a cup of tea, and have another go
I can never remember which way backs off the adjuster but its the opposite way from left to right sides!!yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
8th Jul 2019 4:20 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10365
you have removed the torx screw ?
I tried hammering the disc off.
Rotate it round 180° and hammer again.
This persuaded the shoes to move in.
I then was able to push the disc back on and
do a more usually removal
8th Jul 2019 5:32 pm
Dazz360
Member Since: 03 Sep 2016
Location: West Mids Walsall
Posts: 871
I’d say the shoes are caught on a worn down edge in the drum brute force and new discs me saysMetal auto sump & fluid change (3 hrs)
LR door puddle projectors (10 mins)
Tinted Bonnet wind deflector (10 mins)
All Intercooler pipes and Tbolts (2hrs)
3 injectors replaced so far (30mins)
Sunroof drain pipes both sides 2.5 hrs)
Rear discs, shoes,pads,callipers,flexi hoses, rigid brake line, n/s upper hub carrier bush and rear n/s upper arm (13hrs over 2 days)
8th Jul 2019 9:01 pm
Oswiperus D3 Decade
Member Since: 02 Apr 2010
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
Posts: 1590
If someone has fitted the adjuster the wrong way around then the adjustment will be the opposite way.Stu
2016 D4 Landmark current
2022 Defender D300 SE Gone
D4 2014 XS Commercial - Gone
D4 2016 hse lux montalcino red - Gone
D3 2005 se java black - current
D3 2005 base manual - gone
D2 1999 TD5 E white - current
8th Jul 2019 10:11 pm
Dazz360
Member Since: 03 Sep 2016
Location: West Mids Walsall
Posts: 871
Don’t know if this helps as this shows to tighten so opposite way to loosenMetal auto sump & fluid change (3 hrs)
LR door puddle projectors (10 mins)
Tinted Bonnet wind deflector (10 mins)
All Intercooler pipes and Tbolts (2hrs)
3 injectors replaced so far (30mins)
Sunroof drain pipes both sides 2.5 hrs)
Rear discs, shoes,pads,callipers,flexi hoses, rigid brake line, n/s upper hub carrier bush and rear n/s upper arm (13hrs over 2 days)
8th Jul 2019 10:40 pm
Philip1972
Member Since: 10 Mar 2017
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1072
I was replacing everything on my rear discs and I had the same problem as you.
Sledge hammer got them off
9th Jul 2019 7:44 am
Dazz360
Member Since: 03 Sep 2016
Location: West Mids Walsall
Posts: 871
Lol Metal auto sump & fluid change (3 hrs)
LR door puddle projectors (10 mins)
Tinted Bonnet wind deflector (10 mins)
All Intercooler pipes and Tbolts (2hrs)
3 injectors replaced so far (30mins)
Sunroof drain pipes both sides 2.5 hrs)
Rear discs, shoes,pads,callipers,flexi hoses, rigid brake line, n/s upper hub carrier bush and rear n/s upper arm (13hrs over 2 days)
9th Jul 2019 7:45 am
alexlr
Member Since: 01 Nov 2016
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 8
Update: Got the discs off. For the next guy (or gal) to face this problem here is a little summary:
The discs were catching the brake shoes on a lip on the inside of the drum as suspected and pointed out by others as well.
The adjusters that needed to be unwound to retract the shoes and release the brakes were not seized but rather at the end of their travel. They had no more thread on them to unwind.
I didn't realize that this was the case since I did not know what an unwound adjuster looked like and the hole didn't provide much in the way of inspection opportunities. I found them in that position when I started so either they backed off at some point (unlikely seeing that they would normally be prevented from turning by the spring that sits over the knurls which was intact) or were installed that way by the last person to service them (memory not clear since it has been many years but 90% sure it was done at the dealer).
That left me with only 2 options:
1) brute force the disc off which essentially means that you yank/push/pull/smash on the disc until the inner lip basically scrapes away the brake shoe surface until it comes out (which I did for the first disc (note this required 2 people and a beer run)
2) drill through the lip of the brake shoe that inserts into the adjuster to break it off (easier than drilling through the adjuster itself since it is much thinner). Basically you are looking to break the lip or tab of metal that is part of the brake shoe right next to the adjuster on either side of it by drilling it through the access hole. Access for a 10mm drill (maybe a bit bigger also) is doable through the hole. Any metal left can be broken off with a small chisel and hammer. After this the disc came off easily (note that this was only clear to me after I had a good look at the complete assembly after I took off the first disc but this was much easier and didn't require a second person, a beer run or a replacement disc).
As a parting thought: there seems to have been some dragging of the shoes on the disc for a while based on the disastrous condition of everything that was behind the disc, on the lip that was dug into the inside drum of the disc and also on the fact that the dust shield on the back of the discs (mounted to the hub) shows some signs of strong corrosion near the hub area which leads me to think that the area has experienced some excessive heat.
The question for you fellow members is this: if there is a suspicion of excess heat in the hub area and there is a "slight" noise when turning the hub by hand but no play at all, should I be worried about the wheel bearing? I am really not looking forward to changing this as I can't do it myself due to the lack of a big hydraulic press and an upcoming holiday that would not leave me with enough time to do it before I leave. Can I just drive as is and worry about it when/if it develops play or a noise I can hear from behind the wheel?
10th Jul 2019 7:42 pm
Dazz360
Member Since: 03 Sep 2016
Location: West Mids Walsall
Posts: 871
In my opinion if you don’t mind the noise and has no play leave it but you or who ever does it will have to strip it back and more to change the bearing . At least you know how to get it apart and makes things quicker Metal auto sump & fluid change (3 hrs)
LR door puddle projectors (10 mins)
Tinted Bonnet wind deflector (10 mins)
All Intercooler pipes and Tbolts (2hrs)
3 injectors replaced so far (30mins)
Sunroof drain pipes both sides 2.5 hrs)
Rear discs, shoes,pads,callipers,flexi hoses, rigid brake line, n/s upper hub carrier bush and rear n/s upper arm (13hrs over 2 days)
10th Jul 2019 7:49 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10365
I guess this is where a diagnostics machine helps to give a bit more slack on the EPB cables
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