garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1130
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Until the gearbox breaks down in tens of thousands of kms time due to incorrect oil - if you want to risk your gearbox that is your choice.
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 7th Feb 2016 11:09 pm |
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TSpooner
Member Since: 01 Feb 2016
Location: Queenstown
Posts: 3
  
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I have used this as it is speced by Fuchs for the ZF6HP26. I have worked with Fuchs products in various maintenance engineering roles on much larger and considerably more expensive units than a 6-7k transmission and never had an issue. About 95% of transmission failures are through lack of servicing and subsequent oil breakdown and/or contamination. A cheap way to put your worries to bed is to take a sample of each oil and get it tested. Maybe $40 per sample from ALS tribology. Things do wear out. My trans is over 330km now. Still goes fine. With anything mechanical, even with the best maintenance there are and can be failures.
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| 7th Feb 2016 11:30 pm |
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Rich84
Member Since: 25 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
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The issues with using the Penrite fluid were immediately noticeable to me - trans was noisy and I was getting an audible squawk on gear changes. Changing back to LG6 fixed it, but the converter has always been noisier than I'd like, and I'm now getting the start of the dreaded shudders @ 248K - taking off easy at a traffic light then flooring it - feels like driving over corrugations. I'll flush it and add Dr Tranny but if it needs a new TC that's fine - I'll be sure that this one gets serviced properly.
It seems for others issues are not noticeable until thousands of km down the track, or it could be that because everyone's 6HP adapts and behaves slightly differently, the only way to thoroughly test a fluid and label it compatible is to test it in a few transmissions, declare it compatible and then release it to the market and hope that for 99% of people it works ok.
Penrite and Nulon both labelled their fluids as being compatible, then retracted on that. Penrite now declares that their fluid is not compatible, Nulon doesn't list compatibility for the 6HP on their website etc anymore, but still does on their containers.
The bottom line is, both of these fluids work well for some people and some have scary results - the only fluid we know to be 100% compatible is LG6 unfortunately. 2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
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| 8th Feb 2016 10:12 pm |
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auAlan
Member Since: 27 Apr 2014
Location: NSW, Central Coast
Posts: 24
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I have just replaced my radiator (fun!) and lost a small amount of ATF and blood. After being quoted $89 for 1 litre from LR I sent out emails to various oil companies - again. Shell haven't replied, Castrol & Penrite say "No" however after being told that 'Fuchs 4134' was suitable as that is what is used in the new Ford Rangers that have the same ZF transmission fitted, I sent an email to Fuchs (rhymes with chooks not ducks) and they said "Yes" their '4134' is suitable. They even sent me their part No's. 4072004 for 4ltrs and 4072020 for 20ltrs. Smaller quantities are not available but I should be able to purchase a small amount from a local mechanic. 
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| 24th Mar 2016 2:58 am |
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Rich84
Member Since: 25 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
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From what I can gather Rangers run a Ford 6R60 or possibly 6R80, so they may run the same fluid and they may not. Only the local made Falcons and Territories 100% run the ZF 6HP and 100% run ZF LG6 which is marketed under Ford Mercon SP.
I get my ZF LG6 from a local transmission specialist for about $30 per litre. From LR and Ford dealers I was quoted similar figures to yourself. 2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
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| 24th Mar 2016 3:14 am |
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TSpooner
Member Since: 01 Feb 2016
Location: Queenstown
Posts: 3
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I'm about 20,000km into running 4134 and no issues. My truck is on the original tranny and converter at 335000km. Will keep you posted on progress
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| 24th Mar 2016 3:15 am |
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garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1130
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Repco sell LG6 by the liter for about $38.
Beware of getting any fluid from Ford - they do not seem to understand that the 6R60 and the ZF 6HP run different fluids and sometimes they get mixed - despite numerous attempts to clarify I have not been able to confirm Mercon SP is actually the same LG6.
Oh the Rangers do not run the same transmission - it is the Ford knockoff which uses a different fluid.
At this stage there is no real information out to confirm any oil other that LG6 is suitable. Some say it is OK with a few thousand km on the box and others have reported failure using other brands but these may have been OK and started being used when the box was old and worn already.
Lots of testimonials for and against but nothing confirmed one or the other. Too risky for me.
Garry
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| 24th Mar 2016 3:29 am |
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auAlan
Member Since: 27 Apr 2014
Location: NSW, Central Coast
Posts: 24
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There is a 4x4 workshop in the Hunter Valley that specializes in LR vehicles and they use the Fuchs 4134 in the ZF transmissions all of time with no issues. I told Fuchs that I owned a 2006 Discovery 3 4.0 V6 with the ZF transmission and they recommended it. I now have it in an email so I wont be deleting it.
Fuchs said;
"Yes, that’s correct. ATF 4134 is suitable for the automatic transmission in your vehicle. You’re welcome to check any applications on our website: http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/fuchs_au/default.asp"
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| 24th Mar 2016 3:54 am |
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WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
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I did a flush using Fuchs 4134, and there was an immediate and noticeable positive change (no pun intended).
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic55010-75.html
I got my ATF from Bursons, very well priced.
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| 24th Mar 2016 4:02 am |
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garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1130
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Well if you guys are happy with it, then go for it though the description does say it is for Mercedes Benz and nothing about other makes - also, it says sealed for life when neither ZF or Landrover meet this standard. ZF about 75,000km and Landrover 240,000km or 10 years.
So if you are happy then great - however over the years makers of supposedly suitable oils (like Penrite) have subsequently withdrawn the ZF 6HP from their list of suitable gearboxes and I have a feeling that Nulon is doing the same.
I am not convinced but each to their own I guess - please keep us informed how you go.
Garry
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| 24th Mar 2016 4:21 am |
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Rich84
Member Since: 25 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
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Theoretically you could flush your transmission with even a Dexron type ATF and see an immediate shift improvement. The reason is that it's fresh oil compared to the burnt out old Lifeguard 6 that LR tells us will be fine forever... The mechatronic loves fresh oil and its operation WILL be improved by it and you will notice the improvement, but this trans constantly adapts to your behaviour as well as its own behaviour. In my case, about 100km down the track with good quality full synthetic ATF that wasn't LG6 and I was having loud 'squawk' noises from the torque converter on every gear shift accompanied by a noticably harsher shift. I switched back to LG6 right smart and at great expense too.
Fuchs 4134 is NOT spec'd for this transmission, it's spec'd for the MB 7G-tronic. Fuchs' own website states this. The MB 7-speeder might work in essentially the same way as the 6HP26, with carbon clutches and a variable lockup torque converter, meaning that the fluid would have to withstand similar stresses and line pressures and would have to have a similar friction coefficient. If that's the case you might indeed get away with using this for some time, but what I don't understand is why you'd even bother risking it... Even if I dumped my trans every 20,000km and replaced that fluid (about 4L?) that's still only $120... We all know how much the trans is to replace. 2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
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| 24th Mar 2016 4:22 am |
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auAlan
Member Since: 27 Apr 2014
Location: NSW, Central Coast
Posts: 24
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Yes Nulon was another that did not recommend any of their ATF's. I purchased my 2006 D3 in April 2014 with 237,000K's and according to the previous owner he had the transmission replaced in Feb 2014. I only need to top up so will use the Fuchs but if and when I come to replacing all of the fluid I will re-read this post, contact the 4X4 mob in the Hunter Valley and hopefully all will be good; time will tell.
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| 24th Mar 2016 4:30 am |
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auAlan
Member Since: 27 Apr 2014
Location: NSW, Central Coast
Posts: 24
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Fair comment rich84. I thought that there must have been a lot more than 4 ltrs in the transmission. Where did you purchase the ATF from at that price? LR in Newcastle want $89 for 1 ltr.
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| 24th Mar 2016 4:36 am |
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WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
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Garry and Rich, I shared your doubts about the Fuchs being suitable, particularly as the website lists no other approvals than the Mercedes type (or Ssangyong, for what that's worth  ), so I gave them a call. I asked why the website shows so little, and how the 4134 qualified to go in the 6hp26.
The answer is got was that it has been tested thoroughly, but that they couldn't show it as a LG6 replacement, because it was not approved by ZF. However, they would stand by their product and were happy to send me that in writing. Which they did.
So I didn't really get a complete answer, but given there are a number on here running 4134 in their transmissions, and have not heard anyone screaming that it killed their box.
Quote:but what I don't understand is why you'd even bother risking it
I did what I thought was adequate research, including getting the manufacturer to put in writing that it was suitable. How is that a risk?
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| 24th Mar 2016 5:26 am |
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garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1130
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For sure - if the gearbox had been filled with Fuchs form new - but if you claimed on thwm now they would just argue the gearbox was already worn and the failure was no because of the Fuchs fluid.
It would be up to YOU to prove the gearbox failed because of their ATF and not for other reasons such as previous poor maintenance etc - almost impossible to prove. Also remember when you switch fluids you should really be doing a full flush - a mega flush which will use about 20litres all up to flush out the old fluid.
I would take such reassurances with a grain of salt but I guess is better than nothing.
As said - for the saving of a few dollars - is it really worth the risk.
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| 24th Mar 2016 5:33 am |
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