Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
challenger23 wrote:
Exactly my fears you can't beat a ladder chassis for strength and durability.....
.....so far. And Conveniently ignoring the well publicised pickup/Ute ladder chassis failures for this.
Is there any similar vehicle that has been on the market long term? Or long enough to get to the rusty chassis stage or 100,000miles with a tintent on the back? Or bashed around the Aussie outback over thousands of kms of corrugations?
Not yet. In the meantime, I am fairly sure that there's some good engineers who have a handle on it.
15th Apr 2016 9:33 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
challenger23 wrote:
1 is like people have said you can't beat weight for towing.
On a 44 ton truck ..the tractor unit is only around 9 ton 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
15th Apr 2016 9:37 am
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
The standard RR 3.0 TDV6 is 2215kg, I doubt the D5 will be any lighter. I think some are making a mountain out of a mole hill.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
15th Apr 2016 9:46 am
challenger23
Member Since: 03 Mar 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 56
9 tonne isn't exactly light and again is based on a ladder type chassis , wheel base and weight have a lot to do with it, all I'm saying is as long as they show it's still as strong through design I'm happy but haven't seen it as yet. Be interesting to see the two vehicles compared after intense testing.
Every kg of weight makes it better for towing. There is no way around it; it's just the fundamental laws of physics. These lighter vehicles are perfectly capable of towing heavy weights, but that does not mean the D3/4 is not better for the extra weight.
Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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15th Apr 2016 9:58 am
RDR
Member Since: 24 Mar 2013
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 2260
Having used the new FFRR and RRS for what i use my disco for I'm not worried. My current disco gets hammered really and as long as i can get the great danes in the boot of the D5 ill have one and have no worries using it in the same vein.MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten
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15th Apr 2016 9:59 am
Canburne
Member Since: 15 Jan 2013
Location: Devon
Posts: 2036
DG wrote:
challenger23 wrote:
1 is like people have said you can't beat weight for towing.
On a 44 ton truck ..the tractor unit is only around 9 ton
And presumably they tow off-road as well?? .
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15th Apr 2016 10:45 am
DG Site Moderator
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challenger23 wrote:
9 tonne isn't exactly light
It is compared to the 35 tons behind it It's all relative 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
15th Apr 2016 10:51 am
challenger23
Member Since: 03 Mar 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 56
Exactly my thoughts you can't really compare the two, be better off mentioning the design process or the one piece chassis design than trying to comparing artic trucks to discoverys. As many people have agreed weight is better for towing , I'm sure the new disco will be good at it was just thinking if anyone knew anything about the built process that got around the fact ladder chassis are usually stronger than single monocoque would be interesting to know .
15th Apr 2016 10:52 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
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Posts: 50978
Of course you can compare the physics off-road or not in either case you still have a lighter vehicle up front
......anyway the way that they form strength into monocoques has improved tremendously since the 14 year old design of the Disco. The requirement for zero shell twist in off-road scenarios exists for the new FFRR & RRS ....and as stated they are both rated at 3500kg. Maybe we would be better debating it if it's a failure of design once released rather than speculating now. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
15th Apr 2016 11:05 am
challenger23
Member Since: 03 Mar 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 56
That's what I was worried about initially as the current vehicles so solid good to hear they've got it covered
HGVs are far from immue to such issues anyway, and on an HGV, the pivot is in front of the rear wheels of the tractor unit, whereas a car and trailer pivots behind the rear wheels - that makes a huge difference. It's a simple case of inertia - the more weight there is the less it's going to be inclined to move, so regardless of rated capability and design, it is always going to be the primary factor. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
15th Apr 2016 11:21 am
challenger23
Member Since: 03 Mar 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 56
It's also a case with agricultural vehicles the previous weight limits meant that in order to tow more weight you had to put a smaller tractor on the front to be legal , this of course had a derogatory effect on the stability and braking of the the unit.
15th Apr 2016 11:57 am
comedyharvey
Member Since: 03 Jul 2010
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1727
On arctics nearly half the weight of the trailer is imposed on the tractor unit through the fifth wheel, if you are running partly empty you put the weight forward not at the rear of the trailer. These are not 9 ton units towing a separate 36 ton trailer.
With drawbar operations either the tractor is heavily ballasted, heavy haulage, or the towing truck carries part of the load, general haulage.Arthur.
Comedy was a horse, Harvey a dog, both sadly gone. Thought I was choosing a password!
Currently;
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101" Fwd. Control 1976
Nuffield 10/90 Tractor (10/60 with 6 cylinder conversion) 1964
Previously;
Series III Lightweight. 1976.
15th Apr 2016 12:34 pm
DG Site Moderator
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I appreciate that there are differences ..and maybe I was being a bit simplistic in my comparison ...ultimately though I don't think that LR are going to run out anything which is going to be any less capable 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
)
It's all relative 
off-road or not in either case you still have a lighter vehicle up front 
