Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390
Quote:
I'm doin my free half day on wednesday PM, anyone else there ??
where???? ------------ EastnorDuncan
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2nd Jan 2007 10:56 pm
caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
TFC,
Probably confused with it being locked in gear and not changing up even in drive, until throttle is pressed. (great feature).
When on a steep descent, particularly after going over drainage humps in low range, something cuts in and suddenly slows the D3 like the bakes have gone on.
HDC is off; I have double checked.
I would think LR would have some design feature to prevent gear box damage with reverse torque as this must occure regularly in an off road vehicle?“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
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2nd Jan 2007 10:57 pm
10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
yer, agree - although fluid dynamics is a whole lot different to the basic physics of a manual gearbox
Without knowing the mapping and logic of each system, I think it's likely that TC is utilised to minimise the reverse torque to some extent, engine braking is still there with an auto but you have to go through the null point of having neither positive or negative power in the drivetrain first.
Three specific instances reinforce my preference in manual 'boxes
1. A D3 auto going 'dead stick' on a hill decent after bouncing heavily and getting a shedload of reverse torque - fortunately it stalled te engine and the 'box was OK
2.A D3 auto going runaway down a steep downward slope - no engine braking or otherwise, HDC was off but commandshift was in 1st
3. A D3 auto dragging itself down a slippery decent by it's front wheels with the handbrake still on - once moving the handbrake wouldn't release without either applying the throttle or the footbrake, neither of which were desirable at the time and would have caused the car to slide even more
2nd Jan 2007 11:09 pm
AndrewS Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
I have driven my auto D3 for 75,000 miles.
The only time I have felt a manual would be better was when 'extreme' 4x4ing.
This being a rock crawl situation when I needed to apply throttle to clear an obstacle which once cleared the car surged forward. If I was in a manual I would have let the car tick over and the surge followed by brakes would not have been necessary.
The other time was climbing sand dunes the auto will over ride the manual select and change up just as you start to climb the dune not what you want. Basically I know whats coming the auto box does not and decides to change up, this would not happen in a manual. This is latter problem is probably due to my inexperience driving dunes in an auto. And the fact that the DSC OFF does not turn the DSC OFF it should be called the DSC 75% OFF
Apart from these extreme situations I would recommend the auto box as it makes the Permagrin even bigger. I have towed heavy trailers up and down the country, across muddy fields up through forest tracks, believe me it has had some stick and it still feels like new. It has never ever failed in any situation I have thrown at it.
I will be replacing my auto D3 with another Auto D3 in March (Rimini Red BTW) I will then take it to Morocco in September and learn how to drive it in dunes proper.
My wish if Land Rover are watching:- Please can I lock and stay into gears 1, 2 or 3 in low range.
At the end of the day we are all individuals and Land Rover give us all a choice of vehicles. Personally I think a Rimini Red D3 HSE TDV6 Auto, Locking rear diff etc etc Tv etc Winch etc is the best vehicle they produce. In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
2nd Jan 2007 11:36 pm
AndrewS Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
10forcash wrote:
yer, agree - although fluid dynamics is a whole lot different to the basic physics of a manual gearbox
Without knowing the mapping and logic of each system, I think it's likely that TC is utilised to minimise the reverse torque to some extent, engine braking is still there with an auto but you have to go through the null point of having neither positive or negative power in the drivetrain first.
Three specific instances reinforce my preference in manual 'boxes
1. A D3 auto going 'dead stick' on a hill decent after bouncing heavily and getting a shedload of reverse torque - fortunately it stalled te engine and the 'box was OK
2.A D3 auto going runaway down a steep downward slope - no engine braking or otherwise, HDC was off but commandshift was in 1st
3. A D3 auto dragging itself down a slippery decent by it's front wheels with the handbrake still on - once moving the handbrake wouldn't release without either applying the throttle or the footbrake, neither of which were desirable at the time and would have caused the car to slide even more
What about putting it into reverse at 50mph er twice In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Well after 5 manual boxes on D2 and D3's the new and due next week will be an auto........... Why? Well 1st number on son is in year 2 of his automotive design degree at coventry and one of the tutors is an LR desginer who dropped a huge manuals are being phased out comment.
Secondly when ordering new D3 one of the LR instuctors from ashford way was there and said all the mapping was tuned for auto's and you would only buy a manual to give yourself a hard time.Alive and kicking..who's round is it anyway ??
3rd Jan 2007 12:07 am
Chocolate
Member Since: 20 Dec 2006
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 375
This has to be down to preference, before buying our D3, we (me and wife) drove several autos and manuals, all diesels. I dont know if it was just the cars themselves but the manuals all felt that little bit sharper on acceleration, is this because a certain amount of bhp is lost through the torque converter?, also with autos mpg always seems to suffer.
I had a BMW steptronic auto and loved it to bits, great gearbox and the 6 speed auto on the D3 also feels great, responsive etc.... but 1 problem......wife would NOT drive an auto, so, sadly if LR phase the manual gearbox out altogether then I will probably end up driving something other than a D3 which would be a shame.
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Chocolate
I must say I felt the auto was about as sharp as the manual on the test drive, however I do intend going down the turbochip route.
I just have to ask why your wife does not drive auto's Alive and kicking..who's round is it anyway ??
3rd Jan 2007 12:38 am
Chocolate
Member Since: 20 Dec 2006
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 375
this has been the subject of many a heated discussion between me and the wife, but unfortunately she is quite a stubborn brute and her take is that she feels "more in control" whereas I state she can be in full control with the command shift but she wont have it.
Cant tell you how hard it was to find the right car, right colour, in manual, for the same money I could have had the pick of loads of used HSE auto's, but she wouldnt have it!!!!
Quite funny though to see the saleman pulling his hair out in despair, cos he knew he didnt have any manuals!!
Car of the Year 2005, 2006 and 2007, Best Large 4x4
Top Gear "Best Car In The World"
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2005 D3 2.7 TDV6 SE Manual, Zambezi Silver, Ebony Powered/Heated Leather, Privacy Glass, Side protection, Parrot CK3200LS Bluetooth Phone Kit, 18" Type 2 Alloys, Bi-Xenons, and Tasmods Stainless Steel sill trims, MANTEC Protection
Last edited by Chocolate on 3rd Jan 2007 12:46 am. Edited 1 time in total
3rd Jan 2007 12:44 am
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
Knowing Mrs Chocolate - I can see why HER decision prevailed
Lot like our house really Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
3rd Jan 2007 12:45 am
Chocolate
Member Since: 20 Dec 2006
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 375
too right Steve, mind she does drive it 70% of the time, supermarket, school run, work etc.. my baby is my transit van (manual btw!! ) D3 is mine on days off, evenings and weekends
Car of the Year 2005, 2006 and 2007, Best Large 4x4
Top Gear "Best Car In The World"
4x4 Magazine "Best 4x4 In The World"
2005 D3 2.7 TDV6 SE Manual, Zambezi Silver, Ebony Powered/Heated Leather, Privacy Glass, Side protection, Parrot CK3200LS Bluetooth Phone Kit, 18" Type 2 Alloys, Bi-Xenons, and Tasmods Stainless Steel sill trims, MANTEC Protection
Ah I can relate to your problem , senior management here can make rats jump onto traps when the mood is up!!!!!
That said when I suggested the auto her bit of the test drive was worth it, the salesmans grip marks are still in the back seat where he was holding on for dear life . I guess I should have mentioned she had FTD at a TVR track day Alive and kicking..who's round is it anyway ??
3rd Jan 2007 12:52 am
DiscoStu
Member Since: 09 Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 11412
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15214
ever thought about changing the wife Chocolate?
at least then you could keep the auto D3.. I was a normal heterosexual chap, but in these new woke awakenings I now identify as a Wardrobe.
3rd Jan 2007 10:23 am
Andy4467
Member Since: 25 Nov 2005
Location: Kent - England
Posts: 203
I went for the manual:
Cheaper to buy - cheaper to run (fuel).
However, having driven an Auto it is obvious that the whole on road experience is better with an auto. Cost aside I would choose an auto.
Whether a manaul is more sought after with the off road boys in few years time remains to be seen..!Some say the glass is half full. Others that it is half empty. I say 'Are you drinking that?"
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it should be called the DSC 75% OFF
er twice 
