Member Since: 23 Sep 2019
Location: Richmond
Posts: 118
LR4 3.0 conversion to 2.7
LR4 3.0 conversion to 2.7
I have just acquired an LR4 with a broken crank.
I happen to have a good 2.7 engine.
Can I swop all the ancilliaries onto the 2.7 without any problems ?
I am living in NZ so there are not too many replacement 3.0 engines available here.
14th Nov 2021 7:30 am
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 360
John,
I'd suspect it is possible some how - early D4's had 2.7's after all. But I bet the engine wiring loom and ECU's are not the same. I know injectors change. You could try and fit every thing from the 3.0 and see what happens? Some thoughts:
The current ECU and injectors will try and fuel it as if it were a 3.0 though - therefore potential to over speed engine? Prob not as it has a crank sensor and will back off fuel at a certain point. More likely the fuel for a 3.0 in a 2.7 cylinder under load will cause higher cylinder pressures than it was designed for and wipe out your big end bearings.
Or go the other way - fit full 2.7 and see if you can use a D4 2.7 Ecu or re flash the ecu?
I think you need a 3.0 though. Have you considered a rebuild? Have a look at 'LR Time' on U tube. Consider a crank from a Ford F-150 2019 King Lariat - I'm sure it is the same beast (But have not heard of anyone doing it yet) - look on TASCA PARTs.Series one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
14th Nov 2021 9:47 am
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1130
The 3.0 out of a F150 has a different crankshaft (larger journals) and a different block (to accept the heavier crankshaft and other modifications). So the crank cannot be used in the LR engine.
14th Nov 2021 1:28 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 360
Garrycol,
The F-150 3.0 TDV6 is reputed to have bigger bearings. BUT it does not. It has the same size bearings as a 2.7 (and by inference the 'European' 3.0). I know this because I have obtained the bearing sizes from the F-150 Ford manual, see thread below:
Conclusion - The bearing sizes were not increased.
Based on this I am personally convinced the crank is the same as well (between 3.0 TDV6). All the engines are made in the same factory (Ford Haleswood I think) - Why have two slightly different cranks?
AdrianSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
14th Nov 2021 1:33 pm
johnhorgan
Member Since: 23 Sep 2019
Location: Richmond
Posts: 118
Thanks for the replies, I will keep you posted with my progress.
Does anyone know if the 3.0 cylinder heads will work on a 2.7 ?
14th Nov 2021 11:59 pm
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1130
Breg90 wrote:
Garrycol,
The F-150 3.0 TDV6 is reputed to have bigger bearings. BUT it does not. It has the same size bearings as a 2.7 (and by inference the 'European' 3.0). I know this because I have obtained the bearing sizes from the F-150 Ford manual, see thread below:
Conclusion - The bearing sizes were not increased.
Based on this I am personally convinced the crank is the same as well (between 3.0 TDV6). All the engines are made in the same factory (Ford Haleswood I think) - Why have two slightly different cranks?
Adrian
If you say so - but the journals on the US Powerstroke engine are 2mm larger in diameter than the LR 3.0 (a comparison of the dimensions are posted on this forum somewhere) - Ford US could not risk getting the US Lemon Laws invoked against them which is what would happen if they used the UK spec engine and all its crankshaft failures. The Powerstroke engine has not had the crank failures of the UK engine.
"The 3.0l Power Stroke engine for a reason has new revised crankshaft and bearings. Ford's LR 3.0L diesel engines had serious problems with bursting crankshafts and quick wear on crankshaft bearings. There are several possible causes - a design mistake, insufficient oil pump performance, improper oil, untimely and incomplete oil change. The reason is most likely a complex of the above factors. Ford has done some work with related components"
15th Nov 2021 6:31 am
johnhorgan
Member Since: 23 Sep 2019
Location: Richmond
Posts: 118
So I am trying to fit a 2.7 engine into my 3.0
I am hoping to transfer all the injectors and other stuff fitted to the 3.0
One thing I have noticed that is not interchageable is the waterpump.
The impeller on the 3.0 protrudes a couple of mm further than on the 2.7, I know this because when I bolted it on I heard a crack noise and the waterpump was slightly binding.
When I removed it I saw that the impeller was broken.
Hopefully I dont come across any more problems, fingers crossed.
18th Dec 2021 5:53 am
dutchviking
Member Since: 07 Oct 2011
Location: Oslo
Posts: 62
Hi
Reading your thread with interest. I am going to do something similar, converting a d3 into a d4 but keeping the 2.7 engine and gearbox. 'Just' swapping out full electrics and modules.
Since the CAN bus is different (29 bits contra 11 bits) on a D4 I sourced a used 2.7 ECU from a D4. I will leave the engine loom intact, will try to replace the one loom between engine compartment fusebox and engine ECU with a 2.7 one. I could also use a D4 engine ECU but than have to put a complete new engine loom in place with the extra ancillaries.
Pete Bell from Bell Autoservices has done it the other way around, he put a 3.0 core in his wifes D3, just moved all the ancillaries over to the 3.0 from the old 2.7 making the car think it is a 2.7 engine.
In your case, a D4 has more sensors, vacuum modules and a second turbo. I think you would need to reprogram the BCM so it knows it has a 2.7 ECU and engine, and re-VIN the 29 bit 2.7 ECU to have the same VIN as the D4.
23rd Jan 2022 12:15 pm
johnhorgan
Member Since: 23 Sep 2019
Location: Richmond
Posts: 118
I am fitting all the 3.0 engine parts onto the 2.7 engine so will be using the original wiring/ecus etc.
24th Jan 2022 7:38 pm
dutchviking
Member Since: 07 Oct 2011
Location: Oslo
Posts: 62
What about the 2nd turbo? Or will you have the ECU remapped?
31st Jan 2022 1:37 pm
johnhorgan
Member Since: 23 Sep 2019
Location: Richmond
Posts: 118
Not sure I understand the question, what about the second turbo ?
Yes I am fitting the second turbo, and using all the ecu etc. that came with it.
I am fitting a 2.7 engine with all 3.0 bits to an originally 3.0 vehicle.
31st Jan 2022 5:55 pm
johnhorgan
Member Since: 23 Sep 2019
Location: Richmond
Posts: 118
Conclusion- Yes fitting the 2.7 to replace the 3.0 works.
There are a few differences which make it awkward;
The engine breather system is different and not interchangeable without modification.
There is a different outlet hole bored into the 3.0 block, which is impossible to replicate on the 2.7
The 2.7 breather cannot be used because the 3.0 injection pump is taller.
I just connected the breather hoses together and routed them to exit into the atmosphere under the engine.
Some of the bolts that retain the EGR system have no mountings on the 2.7 block, but they stay on fine with those that are available.
Some of the turbo mounts are missing, but again they stay on fine.
I have probably forgotten to mention a few things, but I will try and answer any questions.
14th Feb 2022 7:53 pm
loanrangie
Member Since: 18 Jun 2017
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 706
Only just came across this post, well done. I would think this is the route a lot will take as the 3.0 becomes like unobtainium.
What is the performance with the slighter smaller capacity like, noticeable ?
24th Aug 2022 12:52 am
johnhorgan
Member Since: 23 Sep 2019
Location: Richmond
Posts: 118
Performance is good, unnoticeable.
24th Aug 2022 1:39 am
loanrangie
Member Since: 18 Jun 2017
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 706
thanks, expected it would be similar to original.
A tune would soon make up for any difference.
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