Member Since: 01 Jan 2005
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 655
Knackered engine - what ya think ?
A good mate of mine bought a D3 on my recommendation. He had 12 months of relatively trouble free motoring (apart from the normal handbrake and EGR issues), until 4 months ago when his engine went "bang".
The vehicle was 18 months old with 26,000 miles on the clock. The vehicle was recovered to the local dealer (the same dealer who had done a full service just 2 months earlier) who diagnosed a "blown" engine due to lack of oil. It appeared that there was only 2 litres of oil left in the engine and chronic oil starvation had caused the engine to fail. When challenged about how often my pal had checked his oil, he honestly (but perhaps slightly naively) admitted that he hadn't checked his oil since the last full service just 4,000 miles earlier. On the basis of that admission Land Rover has denied any liability to fix (aka replace) the knackered engine.
My pal has argued that any engine that would consume or leak so much oil in that mileage must have been faulty, or the dealer hadn't put enough oil in it, and there was no oil warning light (or any other warning light) showing before the engine failed. Land Rover insist they will not replace the engine and the dealer accepts no responsibility. My pal has "appealed" to the ombudsman and is awaiting the outcome of that process. Apparently a replacement engine will cost around £6k which, needless to say, my pal doesn't want to pay. Everytime I see him he reminds me about how I strongly recommended a Disco and he keeps saying he wishes he had ignored my advice.
My take is that either the engine was faulty or the dealer was negligent, but I cannot see how the fault lies with my pal. I appreciate that checking the oil regularly is desirable, but in reality how many people actually do this. And even then - how many TDv6's can possibly use around 6 lites of oil in 1,500 miles and still be regarded as "healthy".
I have suggested he goes on a dirty protest in his dealer's showroom, chaining himself to the service counter. He still holds out hope that justice will prevail and he will eventually get a new engine at someone else's expense.
Has anyone else had a similar experience - and if so - what was the outcome ?Disco 4 TDV6HSE
Defender 200TDi CSW
RR Evoque
Last edited by Smarticus on 29th Dec 2008 10:23 pm. Edited 1 time in total
29th Dec 2008 10:07 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72787
Not much help but I do check regularly as once checked & nothing was showing after being full 500 miles previously. Moronic design of dipstick doesn't help!
Wasn't there a case recently where engine went bang when full of oil?
29th Dec 2008 10:17 pm
SKP
Member Since: 07 Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 219
I always pop the bonnet and check the oil and all other fluids before I drive off from service
I had an experience years ago with an Alfa where I did this
The dealer principal came out and abused me
He was very sheepish when I showed him the dipstick
NO OIL
I asked him who would have paid for the repairs had I driven off
I didn't go back there again
I think your make is going to have a battle
29th Dec 2008 10:17 pm
DiscoStu
Member Since: 09 Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 11412
He has no way of proving where the oil went (or if it wasn't put in), and has admitted he hadn't checked the level
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
Clearly your "mate" cant read does he not see the label on the inside of the fuel filler cap
Better check the tyres soon oh they are OK as they only flat on the bottom
29th Dec 2008 10:25 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Quote:
Maintenance is the owner's responsibility and
you must ensure that owner maintenance
operations, oil services, inspections and brake
fluid and coolant changes are carried out when
required and according to the manufacturer's
recommendations.
Quote:
ENGINE OIL CHECK
Check the oil level weekly, when the engine is
cold and with the vehicle resting on level
ground.
The oil consumption of an engine is influenced
by many factors. Under high loads an engine
will consume more oil than usual. Diesel
engines usually consume slightly more oil than
petrol engines.
He might end up with a compromise arrangement ..but it does clearly state that inspections are the owners responsibility. They will argue that if the checks were carried out as required the loss of oil would have been picked up sooner. If he can prove that they serviced the vehicle incorrectly then that might give him more of a case but I can't see it going all his way TBH21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
every Sunday morning and the visual stuff every time I walk round the car, return to it after parking etc etc
How old do I sound
May be worth looking at an independant review of the engine - but even that isn't going to be cheap and if it contradicts LR and Dealership would probably end up going through the courts."To finish first, one first has to finish ...."
29th Dec 2008 10:26 pm
simonsi
Member Since: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 1264
Agree with DG. He should engage a solicitor or small claims process, aim for full coverage of the fix due to dealer´s negligence (ask them in writing for their explanation as to where the oil, if there after the service, has gone, ask for confirmation of any oil leaks found - if any - photo the normal parking places and underside of the car showing no oil stains etc etc), but be prepared to accept 50% or whatever he is willing to accept given his lack of care as per the manufacturers maintenance has contributed to the size of the problem.
Motto is check the oil.....Cheers
Simon
29th Dec 2008 10:32 pm
v40mav
Member Since: 10 Aug 2008
Location: West Lothian
Posts: 264
heard a similar case but not with a LR- was a leased company car - the driver checked oil on regular basis but when challenged really could not prove he did so - ended up with a bill for 2500 for new vectra engine - company ended picking up bill as lease Co advised that driver was at fault for not checking oil.
He now take a photo on his phone weekly when he checks this to prove it being done.
Not sure how LR would react if driver had said he did check the oil.TDV6 HSE - Silver
Defender 110 County
Freelander 2 HSE
Member Since: 01 Aug 2005
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 2572
Sorry to disagree with the trend so far but...
I don't think the drivers failure to regularly check the oil was the cause of failure here. The engine failed, and one of the symptoms was a resulting lack of oil.
Come on you lot, be honest, how many of you actually need to top up the oil at these weekly checks you carry out so religiously? My point being that generally, after the first few thousand miles, these things dont use a lot of oil, so something must have failed - other than the user!
I'd say that in about 115k miles in D3's I've only added about 2ltrs of oil in between services.
Now the confession ... despite the above, I did actually check my oil this morning! (and it didn't need any)
But I did change the air filter Long succession of Disco's since 2001...
SIII Lightweight - neglected & rusting. Bulkhead, A panels, vent panel & outriggers now disintegrated - Next years project!
I never mentioned why I check the oil without fail every week
But DaveT makes a good point. I have added precisely no oil to my current D3 in 9170 Miles since 1st September. My old needed about a pint in 51,000 Miles.
But I grew up driving loads of Mini's and they use a tad more "To finish first, one first has to finish ...."
30th Dec 2008 1:11 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
So if I didn't get my D3 serviced ....and it failed? ...or if I didn't get my D3 insured? ...and I crashed Irrespective of whether people do check or not ...they still have a responsibility which is made clear. The issue with the engine ..if it existed...would have been picked up ...no? 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
But on my last few Audi's I only found the bonnet release when I had to fill the chuffin washer fluid bottle "To finish first, one first has to finish ...."
The issue with the engine ..if it existed...would have been picked up ...no?
Not always the case, no. The oil level could have been fine until a few miles before the engine went pop. The engine going pop may even have been the cause of the oil level dropping.
I struggle to see how a driver is responsible for the loss of that much oil in 4,000 miles. It's most likely to have been caused by a mechanical failure (or a mechanic's failure). A check 600 miles previously may have been clear or may have shown 3 litres in the sump. If the latter, I'd be wanting a new engine anyway and if the former, how the hell do you prove it to LR?
I sense a court case I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
30th Dec 2008 1:40 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
But if he had said I checked the oil last week and it was fine ...then that would give credence to the story ..but he didn't ...and 4000 miles is a long way. I have to be honest I don't check regularly after a few thousand k ...but that's the chance you take. I don't see how there isn't a level of user culpability regardless of whether it's the engine or user failure. Each party is trying to offset their liability TBH.21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
