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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689
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Assuming the loss was steady from service, the rate of loss would have been between 500ml and 750ml per tank of fuel. Even if you followed the recommended check regime you'd still potentially have lost 1.5l before you'd register the loss. At that level I'd be back at the dealer and demanding assurances regarding consequential loss/rebuild.
If those checks didn't happen there is still the issue of cause here. The driver's failure to check is less of a cause than the failure that led to the oil loss. My view (and only my view) at best LR might get 50/50 in court and I don't see them appointing a solicitor to try and keep £3k. I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
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 30th Dec 2008 1:56 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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DG wrote:
He might end up with a compromise arrangement ..but it does clearly state that inspections are the owners responsibility. They will argue that if the checks were carried out as required the loss of oil would have been picked up sooner. If he can prove that they serviced the vehicle incorrectly then that might give him more of a case but I can't see it going all his way TBH
agree with that already  
 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 30th Dec 2008 1:59 am |
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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689
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Will you please stop agreeing with me in advance  I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
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| 30th Dec 2008 2:06 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 30th Dec 2008 2:11 am |
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gilbo
Member Since: 24 Mar 2006
Location: Dorset
Posts: 56
  
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' Everytime I see him he reminds me about how I strongly recommended a Disco and he keeps saying he wishes he had ignored my advice.'
I just think it's a shame your 'mate' seems to think that in some way you are to blame!!! How can his engine running low on oil have anything to do with you??? There is a saying that for every finger you point there are three pointing back at you - try it and you'll see what I mean.
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| 30th Dec 2008 10:54 am |
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NJF
Member Since: 05 Oct 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 2466
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I checked my engine's oil level in mid-November, just before a run back to the UK and it was fine.
I checked it again in mid-December, just before we returned to the UK for Christmas and it was on the lower limit, so I added one litre to bring it back to full. I'm glad I didn't miss the check. A run to the UK without a top-up might have put me in the same position as this poor chap.
Check the oil, as the good book says.
Interestingly, my Mercedes has no dipstick. When I asked the dealer where it was and how I should check the oil, he said, "You don't, the car will tell you." Sure enough, one day the car display said, "Add oil, 0.5 litre." Mercedes seems to take the view that what's under the bonnet is normally a matter for their mechanics only.
Edited to say that I've just checked the D3's oil level again (we got home last night at 01:30) and we used about 0.25 litre in perhaps 2500 km of reasonably hard motoring (none of it on the A47, I hasten to add). That's a bit more than we would normally use, but not out of order, I think. We're now 400km away from a 45,000 km / 2-year service. Happy New Year, for the servicing dealer, at least.
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| 30th Dec 2008 11:07 am |
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NHR
Member Since: 13 Dec 2007
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 923
 
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Funnily enough, the oil level is the one thing I do check, usually once a fortnight (and I do a relatively low annual milage). I once had a brand new BMW hire car in Itlay and had to put oil in after only a few kms (the light came on!). Since then I have been more cautious.
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| 30th Dec 2008 11:24 am |
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Smarticus
Member Since: 01 Jan 2005
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 655
 
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I guess the reason I feel a small tinge of gulit is that I talked him out of getting another new Toyota as I convinced him that D3's were just as reliable and far better to drive. And needless to say, he never had any trouble with the various Toyotas he has had over the years (and probably only checked the oil on them pretty infrequently).
It still surprises me that no oil warning light came on - wouldn't that be expected at such low oil levels ?
One theory that has been put forward is that, apparently, the TDv6 runs through some "extra fueling" regime every few 1,000 miles, which is designed to clear out the accumulated deposits in the engine. This process needs a few miles to complete, but vehicles that only do short runs might never have sufficent time for the whole process to complete. Theory is that if the process only ever started, but never finished, the extra temperature in the engine could quickly consume oil without the driver being aware. The vehicle in question lives on an island and so it does tend to do lots of short runs. Disco 4 TDV6HSE
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| 30th Dec 2008 11:43 am |
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Bodsy
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Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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That's only with a dpf and I'm sure we don have those fitted over here.
He shoulda checked the oil..... Agree that it shouldn't have run low, but whatever the brand, he still is (partly) at fault for not checking IMHO. Bodsys Brake Bible
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| 30th Dec 2008 11:49 am |
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coachman
Member Since: 11 Oct 2008
Location: kent
Posts: 23
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Amazing that everyone else is to blame exept the person who failed to maintain his car by checking the oil!! The fault probably lies with the servicing dealer not putting the correct amount of oil in the car initially but the driver is responsible for checking the oil and should have found the problem early enough not to have caused himself this aggravation and cost! Land Rover for their part have told you to check the oil regularly and that the TDV6 may consume more oil than a petrol unit and thereby are blameless for this incident! The Land Rover product is not at fault in general as this is a maintainence (or lack of it) issue!
I find it bizzare that people like this suffer failures of this nature and look relentlessly to blame someone for it and when they can't they resort to bringing down the reputation of the marque.
Sorry to rant but come on chaps lets just check the oil as the manufacturers says we should and carry out basic quality checks when dealers intervene with our cars, you know it makes sense!!!!!
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| 30th Dec 2008 12:02 pm |
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MacLeod 313
Member Since: 18 Apr 2008
Location: away
Posts: 10723
 
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Did'nt all the motor manufacturers colaborate to make things easier for the owners and colour code (mostly Yellow) all the componants that need checking a minimum of once a week.
TBH after admitting he did'nt check the fault lies with the owner. Granted the dealerships fitter may have been on christmas mode, but a knowledgeable owner always checks his oil level after a service. I have had many a service where the level was low after.
I do mine once a week, quick walk round to spot probs with tyres, and check the oil. Waiting for an oil light to come on is 1. stupid as the bulb may have blown, and 2. stupid as the damage probably has already started.
The best this owner can do now is SMALL CLAIMS, and maybe the dealership might meet SOME of the costs
A LESSON TO US ALL. WEEKLY CHECKS MINIMUM 
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| 30th Dec 2008 12:10 pm |
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norto
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: batemans bay
Posts: 1605
 
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Fight them all the way.
Any vehicle that needs its oil checked every 2 weeks because
it may be low on oil is a dud.
If an engine runs out of oil in 4000ks then it was already stuffed.
And ask them to explain why the oil light didnt come on Pete
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| 30th Dec 2008 12:23 pm |
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coachman
Member Since: 11 Oct 2008
Location: kent
Posts: 23
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An oil light will only come on once the oil pressure drops below something like 7psi which at high engine speeds is generally too late! We run all variations of diesel engines where I work and they all burn oil to one degree or another, what we don't do is let them run out,destroy the engine and then bleat on at the maunfacturers what terrible people they are! The idea is to protect your investment and enjoy the many years of faithful service it will give you if you follow the instructions!!
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| 30th Dec 2008 1:02 pm |
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simonsi
Member Since: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 1264
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Smarticus, you need your friend to decide who to pick the fight with. With LR it is the warranty that is the issue and he has clearly, by his own admission, broken its terms so is probably stuffed there.
AFAIK the dealer has no such protection, ie his work (putting the right amount and quality of oil in), is warranted without the need for the driver to carry out weekly checks that he carried out the work to a sufficient quality. I would argue that unless the dealer can confirm how the oil was consumed or leaked then the natural conclusion is that it wasn't there in the first place, ie the dealer's work was defective - hence my advice to collect evidence of non-leakage.
I can't see any engine consuming that amount of oil without leaving copious quantities of smoke behind. If it had leaked there should be evidence. If neither of these occured then I can only conclude that the dealer did not put the oil in in the first place. There may still be a contributory factor from the non-checking though. Has he RAC membership etc, they can always give an engineers report re oil consumption etc....?
Lets face it, what would have been the position if the lack of oil had been discovered after a week of driving, no-one would be happy with just re-filling it and leaving it at that.... Cheers
Simon
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| 30th Dec 2008 1:08 pm |
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simonsi
Member Since: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 1264
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coachman wrote:An oil light will only come on once the oil pressure drops below something like 7psi which at high engine speeds is generally too late! We run all variations of diesel engines where I work and they all burn oil to one degree or another, what we don't do is let them run out,destroy the engine and then bleat on at the maunfacturers what terrible people they are! The idea is to protect your investment and enjoy the many years of faithful service it will give you if you follow the instructions!!
But the amount of oil missing far exceeds what you could reasonably expect to put in such an engine over the amount of time and mileage since the last service. Both dealer and driver look to be at fault so should bear the cost jointly to some degree IMHO.... Cheers
Simon
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| 30th Dec 2008 1:11 pm |
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