StornowayStu
Member Since: 10 Aug 2012
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 331
  
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| Key programming with Faultmate or other tools |
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Can anyone confirm they were able to pair/program their own new key to their LR without needing to visit a dealer using Faultmate or any other tool ? I know that previously used remotes can't be paired and you have to get a locksmith who can cut the blank. Crossed both those hurdles but LR seems to reject the key with "key invalid -challenge failed" message. Before I turn it over to the dealer anybody have any tips or errors - I have seen some say that the instructions are wrong in that you don't leave the key in position '0' as instructed but needs to be turned to position 'II' for it to work.
Thanks!
-- Stuart
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 10th Aug 2012 7:56 pm |
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JDB
Member Since: 25 Mar 2010
Location: NW Hampshire
Posts: 2485
  
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I have struggled with this (and posted on BBS forum).
I don't see any stage in the process where the remote buttons are pressed to "learn" them.
Following the BBS forum advice I have keys that will start the D3 but ony one remote that will unlock it.
Have not tried with version 1.30 but will do this weekend.
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| 11th Aug 2012 6:45 am |
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Albert0109
Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: Sunny Essex
Posts: 404
 
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Any joy reprogramming your remotes yet ?
If yes how did you manage to do it?
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| 29th Aug 2012 7:42 pm |
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StornowayStu
Member Since: 10 Aug 2012
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 331
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Sorry for not following up but I'm still putting the pieces of the jigsaw together.
Long story short, I couldn't get the eBay "virgin" remote to work with my LR3/D3. I ended up coughing up $260 to my friendly main dealer who used my VIN to get a remote with key cut based on the pattern at LR HQ. They told me that I would need to get it paired with my vehicle by service at a cost of $120. I took the key and ran. I had been told by some that as it stood it would still start the car but remote functions would not work. Well it didn't start the car and the remote functions didn't work. However using the Mongoose with the JLR SDD software (I did not yet have my Faultmate MSV) worked a treat - ten minutes later I had two keys working. At no point did I need to press any of the remote buttons. I think that is an older procedure that predates the LR3/D3.
Now I like a puzzle from time to time, so although I got a full refund from the eBay guy I still want to know what goes on behind the curtain. My suspicion (and I'm buying an RFID transponder key reader to test it!) is that when the key is ordered from LR, it is cut and the VIN # and or some other identifier is encoded into one of the many memory slots in the transponder tag. I have heard that LR know the first six key "numbers" of every LR based on the VIN # and choose one of those. I have not yet been able to test.
My theory then runs something like this:
1/ New key containing the VIN# is introduced to the LR3/D3 and the car answers with a code which allows the key to trust the car
2/ Part of the pairing then bonds the key by allowing the car to trust the key based on the earlier exchange
3/ All keys present and trusted are activated. Missing keys are marked by the car as inactive.
I have been told that the encoding of the VIN # (and or the trust code) is a one off write - you would need to replace the transponder chip with a new one if you wanted to recycle a preowned key fob. Seems like a bunch of eBay sellers are unaware or don't care.
The other option would seem to be cloning your existing key with some of the transponder tools out there - in this way the LR3/D3 doesn't actually know it's a different key, to all intents and purposes it's an identical twin. Now I don't know if that is actually possible with the LR yet, it is with some vehicle brands.
So I'm waiting on the reader coming in and when it does I'm going to be examining my original key, the key I had supplied by my LR dealer and a couple of other keys I have begged and borrowed to compare against. I'd like to put together the equivalent of Bodsy's Brake Bible for those wanting a cost effective key solution.
I don't need to do it because I now have two working keys, but hey, winter is approaching and it's always nice to have a hobby on those dark winter nights  Oh and I'm a little mad too. Go Science!
Current status says you will have to cough up the dosh to your dealer for an official key but you don't need to pay them to pair it if you have a Faultmate or other tool like SDD/IDS.
Other options may emerge soon...
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| 29th Aug 2012 8:33 pm |
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geoff.
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: West kent
Posts: 8531
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i did it on my V8 took me half a day tho just kept mucking about with the faultmate till it worked 
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| 29th Aug 2012 8:48 pm |
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BBS SPY
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny Cyprus
Posts: 3054
 
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I assume you did get it working in the end at least Geoff. I dont suppose you can remember the exact sequence
It seems there is some sequential element that we do not quite yet fully understand or have documented.
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| 29th Aug 2012 10:44 pm |
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Albert0109
Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: Sunny Essex
Posts: 404
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Thanks Stornaway Stu for that interesting and informative post!
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| 29th Aug 2012 11:02 pm |
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geoff.
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: West kent
Posts: 8531
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Yes Colin I did get it working but can't remember then sequence I did
Ps from memory the ecu has already got 2 keys in its memory you have to learn the 3rd key I think JDB has a problem and I'm with him Saturday so will try and help Jon out and write down the sequence 
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| 29th Aug 2012 11:12 pm |
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StornowayStu
Member Since: 10 Aug 2012
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 331
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I seem to recall there is a split in the logic of the Faultmate - there is a "learn a new key" and enable key(s) - I didn't use Faultmate to pair my key from the dealer as I didn't have it then
The IDS/SDD software just asks how many keys have you got this session - it doesn't distinguish between new keys and existing keys. Maybe this is the source of some confusion...
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| 29th Aug 2012 11:35 pm |
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JDB
Member Since: 25 Mar 2010
Location: NW Hampshire
Posts: 2485
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My problem sounds like StornowayStu's in that it is supposed to be a new key!
My local independent tried with their system and got as far as I did - key worked but remote did not (not sure what system they were using).
I have followed the good advice on here about replacing the battery and now have that one to get back in sync with the car as well.
Geoff - we could have a cunning plan, you twiddle the dials and knobs and I will write the process/sequence - if we can work get it to work!
See you on Saturday.
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| 30th Aug 2012 6:41 am |
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StornowayStu
Member Since: 10 Aug 2012
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 331
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It's possible that if the key was a "left in the drawer forever" that the battery that operates the remote functions is too dead to talk to the car - apparently it's induction charged like a toothbrush so I have seen some suggestions of leaving it in the ignition for a while, taping it the working key for while when it is in the car or you may just have to replace the actual battery by busting apart the remote.
To start the car and pass the immobiliser check does not require battery power allegedly, the transponder tag in the key gets read with the ignition coil in the lock...so if your remote battery dies you may need to use the manual entry to get into your LR but you should still be able to start and drive it....
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| 30th Aug 2012 1:40 pm |
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geoff.
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: West kent
Posts: 8531
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Stu
JDB and myself spent a few hours today working out the sequences of key programming and we was programming the keys with out any failures
ps JDB will post up the sequences we used later
Geoff
Last edited by geoff. on 1st Sep 2012 8:17 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| 1st Sep 2012 5:56 pm |
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JDB
Member Since: 25 Mar 2010
Location: NW Hampshire
Posts: 2485
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Geoff - thanks also for the brain power on key learning, here is what we did:
MSV2 Key Learning Procedure:
1. Master Key/remote in ignition, turn on ignition.
2. Select learn 1 new key, enter
3. Turn key off, WAIT (system has to recognise master key) - for instructions on screen
4. When instructed insert new key/remote – within 8 seconds from instruction (timer counts down). Do not turn on ignition.
5. Should then see key successfully learnt.
6. Job done.
The vital bit we found was letting it learn the old key for long enough, following the instructions you end up taking the working key out too quickly. We were able to swap the coded keys around repeatedly using this procedure.
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| 1st Sep 2012 6:09 pm |
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Albert0109
Member Since: 15 Aug 2012
Location: Sunny Essex
Posts: 404
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| 1st Sep 2012 6:53 pm |
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mallo
Member Since: 10 Feb 2009
Location: Jersey
Posts: 351
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Hi all
I have just had one of my two keys pack up, I have contacted the large one and he can supply a replacement key, however he is not 100% sure if it can be re-programmed by a Faultmate MSV2 Extreme.
Does any one know if this is possible and what the procedure is?
Is this what is being spoken about in the post above?
Thanks for any help you can offer
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| 4th Sep 2012 4:26 pm |
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