Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Issues with Alpine Diesel
On my way to Thredbo last Saturday, I filled up with Alpine diesel in Cooma, but had trouble starting in the afternoon of the following day, the temperature being around -3 after a night of snow. Eventually started but had the same problem the following afternoon. Suspected that there was a problem with the diesel so got some Alpine diesel in Thredbo, although only a quarter tank as it was three-quarters full. It started ok the following two days with similar temperatures. I called in at the the Cooma service station concerned on the return trip and they confirmed that it was Alpine diesel as that was the standard from May onwards and that no one else had complained. If you are heading for Thredbo I suggest that you do not fill up in Cooma or email me privately and I can advise the station concerned. Of course there could be another explanation but I am not sure what it could be. Once it did start it ran ok.Disco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
1st Aug 2015 8:46 am
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73130
Sounds just like when the glow plugs have failed, or mostly failed. As we'll be seeing in a few months.
1st Aug 2015 9:40 am
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1130
rsp - did you fill in Goulburn before you left - it should have also been alpine diesel as the garages in the Southern Tablelands normally have it from April/May. However if it was not alpine diesel and you were full it is only about 200km of highway cruising to Cooma so would have only taken on 20 litres or so - so probably not enough to make a difference.
But - Goulburn should have had Apline so should have not made a difference. What sort of condition is your battery in - mine is a bit old and low and when I forget about the glow plugs on start it does take a bit to fire up. On cold mornings I try to go through two cycles of glow plugs - ie ignition on until the light goes out and then switch off and the ignition on until the light goes out then start and generally dont have a problem, even on the coldest mornings.
The fuel in Cooma would have definitely been Alpine diesel.
Garry
1st Aug 2015 2:20 pm
rsp
Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Alpine Diesel
DSL and Garrycol thanks for your help. I did not fill up in Goulburn as to the best of my knowledge there are only two outlets selling it and I decided to get as full a tank as possible by waiting until Cooma. This has been my usual practice for many years albeit until this year we were living in Victoria so filled up somewhere else. The prior trip I could only get the additive and not alpine diesel and had no problems.
I did try the cycle with the ignition you recommended, several times and eventually it started. The first time I had the problem it fired on each attempt and ran for a short time and then stopped. The second time I had the problem it did not fire at all initially. I suspected the glow plugs but after reading a forum entry on replacing glow plugs, I was hoping that they were not the problem. I have had the problem once before when I did forget to put in Alpine diesel and it would not start at all before coming to life.
The battery is brand new and I have the Traxide DBS as well. I have not had the issue in Goulburn although the temperature, like Canberra, goes negative and I have only once got alpine diesel this winter. The car is garaged. I now have some 134,000kms on the clock. Off for a short outback trip in about three weeks, but will get the place that did the last service to check the plugs just in case.Disco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
1st Aug 2015 11:22 pm
DDDad
Member Since: 10 Jan 2015
Location: Angus
Posts: 1201
There's a Schrader valve on top of the engine for bleeding out air locks in the fuel line. Next cold morning, before you start the car, turn on the ignition so the pump runs and then press the valve. Is there any air? Is the fuel waxy? Does it flow freely? Probably won't tell you anything, but it's such an easy thing to check. Went for a job as a human cannonball. Not the right calibre.
1st Aug 2015 11:43 pm
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1130
Re: Alpine Diesel
rsp wrote:
I did not fill up in Goulburn as to the best of my knowledge there are only two outlets selling it.
I have not had the issue in Goulburn although the temperature, like Canberra, goes negative and I have only once got alpine diesel this winter.
Given winter temperatures in Goulburn are similar to Canberra - down to -5/-6c I would have thought all garages would have alpine diesel as standard. Certainly all garages here are alpine.
However given that your car did start I doubt it was an issue of alpine diesel as if your fuel had waxed it would not have ran until fuel temperature rose and the wax was absorbed back into the fuel. Likewise I doubt you got dodgy fuel in Cooma (this means water) as again the engine would not have continued to run and your dash would have lit up like a Christmas Treee and maybe the water indicator would have been illuminated.
From what I have heard and thankfully, not my own experience, you do not want to play with the glow plugs unless really necessary as they had a tendency to break meaning headwork is required.
Your issue is hard to diagnose but given overnight temps are down to over -10 up there and afternoon temps will still be below freezing - and that your car starts Ok back home my guess is a low battery issue - low temps mean loss of battery capacity and loads may have further lowered capacity. I appreciate that the battery is new (I hope a AGM (a change from the original calcium) 95 Ah, 950 CCA) but in cold conditions these can have lower capacity.
The telling point will be how the car continues to start back in Goulburn with slightly warmer morning temps we are experiencing now. If you did get dodgy fuel the issue will raise its ugly head again, sooner or later bit normally you engine would stop and not run soon after filling. Also if it is still a bit hard to start back home then I would look at glow plugs. It will start without them but will start easier with them in cold weather.
Good luck with it.
Garry
2nd Aug 2015 1:08 am
rsp
Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Alpine diesel
Hi Ddad and Garrycol. Thanks for your advice/input. The problem did not come back after putting in the (quarter tank) of Alpine diesel in Thredbo. I was driving daily from Thredbo to the ski shop at Lake Crackenback so I had to start it every afternoon.
I was not suggesting that the diesel I got in Cooma was dodgy, but that it may not have been Alpine diesel. My experience, two years ago, when I had forgotten to fill with Alpine diesel and had overnighted at Mt Hotham, was that it ran ok after I eventually got it started. So it seems that if you get it to start, once it starts it runs ok.
In terms of the battery, the car cranked ok every time and fired, but just did not continue to run after starting. The new battery is a lead acid and one of the best on the market. I know from the Traxide DBS control system that it is being fully charged if the voltage is down as a result of short trips and cold mornings.
I am aware of the issues with swapping glow plugs from the forum and have no wish to go there unless absolutely necessary.
I will investigate Alpine diesel in Goulburn again, but tried a few outlets and they did not stock it, but I do know of one that does, although it is a little off our usual route and only open limited hoursDisco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
2nd Aug 2015 4:39 am
rsp
Member Since: 11 Jan 2006
Location: Goulburn, NSW
Posts: 161
Alpine Diesel
Well, I have been doing some more investigation and it seems that there are two variants of winter diesel: the lower grade is Highlands diesel; and the higher grade is Alpine. Highlands will wax at a higher temperature than Alpine, so Alpine he best for the likes of Thredbo. I suspect that what bought in Cooma was Highlands and not Alpine, which is why a quarter tank of Alpine was enough to make a difference.Disco 3 TDV6 HSE, Auto, White, Rear Diff Lock. ARB BB, Traxide DBS, GME TX3540S, Safari Snorkel, IIDTool-BT, Doran TPMS, Rijidij Spare Wheel Carrier, Two side by side Drifta drawers, cargo barrier and drop down fridge slide, ARB 47l Fridge, Yokohama A/Ts and out of date 17" Cooper STTs.
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