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brainbyte
Member Since: 19 Sep 2017
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18
  
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| Help needed !!! - Front cam belt changed, car won`t start. |
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Greetings everyone,
Yesterday I changed the front timing belt on my Disco3 (DIY work), using the exact instructions that I was able to find here ... with locking pins on the upper pulleys and marking the position of the lower crankshaft (which by the way, did not move during the entire process). The problem is that, after I put everything back together in correct order, the car did not start ... so I would assume that somehow the cam belt timing changed during the process. When I turn the ignition key, everything turns as it wants to star, but it does not. I re-checked everything twice. I would like to know if there is a procedure that I could follow, in order to reset the correct timing. Any pointers or advice in this case, would be much appreciated.
Thank you in advance. All my best regards.
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 22nd Apr 2019 9:01 am |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10363
 
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Well maybe it is electrical. Dud you plug things back in ?? Check
Otherwise rotate engine back to the marked position and check it is still aligned.
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| 22nd Apr 2019 9:11 am |
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knwatkins
Member Since: 19 Sep 2018
Location: Poole, Dorset
Posts: 716
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It does sound electrical if it's turning over and there is no interference on the mechanical side of things. Did you rotate the engine by hand manually to ensure everything turned freely? Kev
MY2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
MY2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey
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| 22nd Apr 2019 9:32 am |
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Dazz360
Member Since: 03 Sep 2016
Location: West Mids Walsall
Posts: 871
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Once done did you rotate the engine twice and check alignment
Worst case is you have to check the crank timing locking pin above the starter motor
Done all my timing yesterday and started
Did you do the belt on the back ? As could be sockets behind battery need looking at Metal auto sump & fluid change (3 hrs)
LR door puddle projectors (10 mins)
Tinted Bonnet wind deflector (10 mins)
All Intercooler pipes and Tbolts (2hrs)
3 injectors replaced so far (30mins)
Sunroof drain pipes both sides 2.5 hrs)
Rear discs, shoes,pads,callipers,flexi hoses, rigid brake line, n/s upper hub carrier bush and rear n/s upper arm (13hrs over 2 days)
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| 22nd Apr 2019 9:39 am |
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brainbyte
Member Since: 19 Sep 2017
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18
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... I am afraid that I missed the part with turning the shaft manually twice ... I am pretty sure there is nothing on the electrical side. I did not change the back belt yet. I prefer to them gradually, to isolate any potential issues ...
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| 22nd Apr 2019 10:01 am |
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brainbyte
Member Since: 19 Sep 2017
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18
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The crank shaft was not locked, but it did not move a single bit during the process, as I carefully marked it before removing the old belt ... I should have done the same with the two upper pulleys ... but I did not. I tried, and I can move the crank shaft manually. What I would like to know now, is there any way to restore the timing if this has changed somehow ?
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| 22nd Apr 2019 10:06 am |
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Dazz360
Member Since: 03 Sep 2016
Location: West Mids Walsall
Posts: 871
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3 locking points needed
Left cam sprocket timing pin
Right cam sprocket timing pin
Fly wheel locking pin Above starter motor Metal auto sump & fluid change (3 hrs)
LR door puddle projectors (10 mins)
Tinted Bonnet wind deflector (10 mins)
All Intercooler pipes and Tbolts (2hrs)
3 injectors replaced so far (30mins)
Sunroof drain pipes both sides 2.5 hrs)
Rear discs, shoes,pads,callipers,flexi hoses, rigid brake line, n/s upper hub carrier bush and rear n/s upper arm (13hrs over 2 days)
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| 22nd Apr 2019 11:04 am |
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MikeBob
Member Since: 19 Sep 2016
Location: Pretoria
Posts: 105
  
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You must lock the crankshaft. Timing slightly out. ECU says no I won’t let the car start
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| 22nd Apr 2019 1:47 pm |
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Flack
Member Since: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Preston Lancashire
Posts: 6234
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Did you undo the three bolts on the cams pulleys when you did the belt tensioner , and did you tighten them back up after. If not it only needs to be two teeth out and it won’t start.
The only sure way now to time it all up again would be to insert all locking pins and the crank locking pin.
Flack 
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| 22nd Apr 2019 3:42 pm |
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Tripe
Member Since: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 285
 
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The most important thing to do is!!!!!
The manual rotation of crank 760 degrees, to check clearance
I did this 3 times and readjusted tensioner on each occasion before I was happy.
Did you disconnect battery and reconnect? , the D3, is not happy if you pull electrical connectors apart and reconnect and start the car without disconnecting battery.
I would be surprised if the crank moved.
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| 22nd Apr 2019 11:51 pm |
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brainbyte
Member Since: 19 Sep 2017
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18
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Latest updates in this case ...
Problem solved, car started. What actually happened ... but first a big, big, big advice for anyone trying to perform the timing belt change as a DIY job, two advice actually ... First, before releasing the belt tensioner and removing the old belt, mark all 3 points with some paint (I used some nails paint from my wife  ), both the upper pulleys, and the lower crank shaft. This is very important, becasue later, if one of the pulleys jumps from timing point, or even the crank shaft moved , you will be able to move them back, and restore the timing point as I did. Second advice, take pictures during the process, A LOT of pictures, and maybe even record the belt change procedure. You will be able to go back later, and consult what you did, if something goes wrong.
Now, back to what happened ... when I used the blocking pins on the upper pulleys, I did not observe at first, but the one on the left did not go completely through, and did not actually block the left pulley. When I released the belt tensioner, the pulley moved forward, breaking the timing point. So before disarm the tensioner and remove the old belt, make sure you manually rotate the lower crank shaft so the upper pulleys blocking pins go completely through, and block against the plastic back plate.
What I did to resolve the issue was:
1. with the new belt mounted and tensioned, I manually rotated the lower crank shaft until it got to the exact point marked by me with red paint
2. the right side pulley was also marked with paint, so I made sure it was also aligned correctly and blocked (the left pulley was not marked with red paint, as I thought it is blocked by the pin - it was not)
3. I released the tensioner and completely removed the new belt (when you fit the new belt, it is better to mount the tensioner last - pay attention to the marked notch when you tension the belt)
4. then I manually rotated the left pulley clockwise, until the mark aligned perfectly with the initial reference point, as I was able to check and confirm in the photos (which my wife took during the entire process - the mark is actually a "04" stamped in the metal by the factory, on both pulleys) - ATTENTION !!! when you manually rotate the left pulley independently without the belt mounted, please pay close attention to the lower crank shaft as it will move a little bit as well (not more than a few teeth forward / clockwise). You have to make sure it is put back to mark, even if rotated counter-clockwise a little bit (it worked without any issues).
5. I then blocked the left pulley (actually my wife made sure it will not move) and I fitted back the new belt, mounted and armed the belt tensioner as needed. Once again, with the left pulley blocked, the right pulley not moving at all, and with the lower crank shaft back on the exact position marked with red paint, and that was the correct initial timing point for me. The alignment was exactly as before removing the old belt.
I mounted everything back, and hit the ignition key. At first key, the car turned back to life, with a new timing belt on. I got no error messages whatsoever, nothing. The car starts and works same as before, as I already done a trip yesterday. By the way, not to forget to mention that, I did not release the 3 screws on the upper pulleys. This helped me more to restore the timing point back to original.
CONCLUSION: Even if the pulleys jump from the timing point, and there were marked prior, they can be brought back to the initial timing point, if manually rotated (independently, without the belt). Of course with paying close attention to the lower crank shaft movement as well.
I truly hope that my recent experience and my findings above, will help anyone that will perform the timing belt change. Also, if you can ask some one to assist, just do it. Four eyes are better than two, and four hands are better than two as well. I am sorry that I did not include any pictures / videos in this post, as I did not have the chance to download them from my wife`s phone to my PC. I will try to do this today.
Thank you everyone for your supportive posts on this thread. Best regards.
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| 23rd Apr 2019 10:37 am |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10363
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It is easy for the upper locking pins to miss the locking point.
And as you say, if you mark with paint, it helps alot
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| 23rd Apr 2019 12:14 pm |
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Dazz360
Member Since: 03 Sep 2016
Location: West Mids Walsall
Posts: 871
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Well done brainbyte it’s very easy to think the pins have locked the top sprockets when it hasn’t fully located good to hear your all sorted now Metal auto sump & fluid change (3 hrs)
LR door puddle projectors (10 mins)
Tinted Bonnet wind deflector (10 mins)
All Intercooler pipes and Tbolts (2hrs)
3 injectors replaced so far (30mins)
Sunroof drain pipes both sides 2.5 hrs)
Rear discs, shoes,pads,callipers,flexi hoses, rigid brake line, n/s upper hub carrier bush and rear n/s upper arm (13hrs over 2 days)
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| 23rd Apr 2019 4:23 pm |
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Tripe
Member Since: 28 Jun 2015
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 285
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If I understand your description properly,
You did not undo the cam sprockets?
This is against the LR procedure to tension the belt ? To work the belt counter clockwise from the crank and lastly release The tensioner.
What’s was your hour count to do the belts and tensioner?
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| 23rd Apr 2019 11:55 pm |
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brainbyte
Member Since: 19 Sep 2017
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 18
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Yes, this is exactly how I did it. I only changed the front belt, for the moment, I will work on the second belt very soon, when I will have a little bit more time. It took me around 6 hours to undo everything and then to put everything back on.
Regarding the rotation of the upper pulleys, I only moved the one on the left clockwise, as I already mentioned. The one on the left did not move from the original position, before removing the old belt. Only the left one "jumped" from point, as it was not completely blocked. The lower crankshaft was marked with red paint prior of removing the old belt, as precaution. That helped me a lot restoring the correct timing point. Having those pictures taken during the entire process, helped me see which was the correct position of the left pulley, before removing the old belt. Also, the tensioner has a notch marked onto it, so you know the exact tension that it should be set to. And that was it.
This is indeed a DIY car ... only for the enthusiasts like us. I only feel sorry that the person owning the DISCO 3 before me, has not had enough care for it, and he preferred to work it and then sell it when things started to fall apart. I put a lot of time and passion into it, and countless hours spent underneath its body, to change filters, oils, compressor, modify suspensions, change the "low pressure" pump inside the fuel tank (which by the way, I discovered that when this pump is almost to the point of failure, IT IS THE MAIN CAUSE FOR THE "ENGINE SYSTEM FAIL" messages and the dreaded LIMP MODE - trust me !!!) etc. You know the drill ... there maybe more cars like this one, but this one is mine .
All my best regards guys.
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| 27th Apr 2019 11:39 pm |
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