Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
HELP - Codes after ALL injectors changed - Fuel delivery?
Background
Changed all six injectors (OEMLR), during the process we did also disconnect the engine ECU and transfer box ECU wiring loops - apart from that followed LR service manual.
The car started without an issue (after bleeding the fuel system FOR ONLY ABOUT 5 SECONDS) but we did not change the fuel filter yet.
First fault that came up was cleared (see photo 1), we ran the diagnostics again and this is what we came up with it (see photo 2) The car still sounds rough with a slight misfire but alot better than when it came in.
COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THEN:
1) Do the OEMLR recon injectors have to be "primed" in someway during installation or is it a case of change and off yer go
2) Given that we disconnected the two ECU wiring looms, is it a case of the vehicle needs a re-install of the software or is it a case of drive it round the corner and back to see if it learns its driving perameters again.
3) Clearly the codes seem to suggest poor fuel delivery to four of the new injectors and high fuel delivery one of the others with one that's gone pete tong less than an hour from install. So could we be look at fuel pressure sensor or are we thinking failed fuel pump or even both, perhaps you've worked on a vehicle with similar "min or max limits on newly installed injectors
BTW, the vehicle had no fault codes logged when we fired it up prior to starting the task
PHOTO 1
PHOTO 2
27th Feb 2012 2:46 am
zarnd
Member Since: 23 Apr 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 794
Would have thought that it is worth trying a fuel filter as it is a relatively cheap part to replace. I doubt that the software has to be reinstalled after unplugging things, but happy to be proved wrong. I know with some of the stuff we do at work when we replace injectors and or engine the injectors have to be coded. Do you have to do that on a D3?
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20740
There is no option on Autologic to code injectors
The vehicle does have to re-learn its adaptive values after the battery has been disconnected, but it should idle pretty even straight away.
Could it be a faulty new injector? Not uncommon, it has to be said. It looks like the 4 injectors at min. limits are compensating for the 1 at max. limit, which could possibly be the injector that is stuck closed. Probably worthwhile swapping No.3 for No.6 and see if the Max. limit moves with the injector, or stays on the same cylinder
As said, would be worthwhile changing the fuel filter as a matter of course, and just to rule it out.
Did you have the old injectors tested at all?
Worst case, it could be a mechanical fault on 1 cylinder. A compression test would confirm/rule out that theoryMy D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
ok the sense of tred is building...... DiscoMikey thanks for injecting the power of reason back in to this thread
Overall we have still the original fault code on cylinder 3 we'd had from the begining despite having ALL the injectors replaced
PLAN OF ACTION WILL BE THUS:
1) Replace fuel filter/bleed system
2) Clear fault codes and run diagnostics
3) Consider results
4) Check fuel pressure from the bleed valve
5) Report findings and crack open the seal on a decent bottle of booze
6) Carryout compression test and place a crystal cut tumbler by the side of the aforementioned bottle
7) Report accordingly and pour said alcohol at the same time
8) Start drinking heavily and without remorse whilst reflecting on what could have been
27th Feb 2012 10:59 am
woody32 Site Sponsor
Member Since: 11 Mar 2009
Location: Somerset
Posts: 3551
Just to confirm that it should run smooth after the injectors are replace and no need for programming as I done mine last week with no issues just need to get it plugged in to see what's happening Wanted D4s non runners pm for competitive price.
IID Pro MV License - D3/4 RRS - Enabling, Updates,Transmission flushing.
Mobile or workshop,PM for details.
27th Feb 2012 12:10 pm
pinhead
Member Since: 20 Dec 2010
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 877
Harness problem to no.3 ?
Moved injector fault stays
New injector still fault stays
Got to think its mechanical or electrical problem and not actually an injector fault now
Vauxhall had a bad batch of harnesses and the plug to injector 3 used to go faulty they sold a repair kit with a new plug and some wires to solder in to the loom
27th Feb 2012 1:25 pm
Q86ARR
Member Since: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Jersey
Posts: 378
I have had one early D3 that was running very lumpy. The faults stored were injectors fuel trim at max and min on all but one injector. A few injectors were both at max and min.
After various tests (including the help of LR technical support) it turned out that the ECU itself was at fault.
If this is the case it will have to go a main dealer for programming due to a change of ECU suppliers.
28th Feb 2012 10:28 pm
Valhalla
Member Since: 23 Oct 2011
Location: Isle of Skye
Posts: 124
Out of interest, what year is the engine? Is it an EU3 (2005 or 2006) unit, or a 2007 onwards EU4?
To further confirm the replies above, you definitely do not need to re-programme anything after fitting new injectors, as long as you can get the engine started then it will automatically rebalance the cylinders within the first few drives. However..... there is an issue on the early softwares from Siemens where the balancer does not work properly, and that will give you the codes you see. If you have diagnostic tool access to clear down any "learned" balancer offsets, then that might help. I cannot remember if the early softwares even store enough data to give a problem immediately on start-up, as you are seeing.
Might be worth a check of leak-downs across the injectors, and make sure that the spill-return hoses are all absolutely A1, as these can also give the same problem if they are restricted in any way (including excess back-pressure to the filter head / fuel tank - this is the biggest determinant of Siemens delivery accuracy)
Keep us informed of whatever you find.
29th Feb 2012 1:06 am
character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
new harness/spill return feed pipes/connectors all ready to go first thing, then up the road so see what happens (as he's not gone anywhere)
Last edited by character on 29th Feb 2012 2:44 am. Edited 1 time in total
29th Feb 2012 2:35 am
character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
Q86ARR wrote:
I have had one early D3 that was running very lumpy. The faults stored were injectors fuel trim at max and min on all but one injector. A few injectors were both at max and min.
After various tests (including the help of LR technical support) it turned out that the ECU itself was at fault.
If this is the case it will have to go a main dealer for programming due to a change of ECU suppliers.
talk to me more on this, why did the ecu go pete tong, how long ago and have yer got a contact at the dealership or LR tech as these really does sound on the button.
Would the ecu go pete tong if each injectors was disconnected with the engine running?
29th Feb 2012 2:38 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20740
Which is why you should really spend the cash, and have a compression test done, to confirm/rule out a mechanical fault with the engine
EDIT: Just seen your Wanted thread... Will be done today My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 23 Oct 2011
Location: Isle of Skye
Posts: 124
character wrote:
talk to me more on this, why did the ecu go pete tong, how long ago and have yer got a contact at the dealership or LR tech as these really does sound on the button.
Would the ecu go pete tong if each injectors was disconnected with the engine running?
It's a bit unlikely that the ECU itself was at fault. If it was an early one, the most likely scenario was that the dealer just fitted an ECU that didn't have a load of crazy injector adaption values stored against each cylinder.
The problem with the early ECUs running to end 06MY was that the balancer function was not effective, which is a hassle if the ECU decides for some reason to actually store a value against that cylinder. You need a dealer+ level of tool to reflash over the stored parameters. This is one very good reason why you shouldn't do anything to the injector circuits whilst the engine is running.
29th Feb 2012 10:13 pm
character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
update for yer, seimens did the old ones, new suuplier for past 12-15 months (probably due to the downturn or the finishing of the d3 2.7).
Vehicle taken by yellow taxi to main agent, on the case straight away, engine harness has now been tested, no issues, new ecu comin in tomorrow, main agent reluctant to do a compressor test using the glow plug removal routine due to the age/mileage and the strong likelyhood of breaking a glow plug meaning bodyoff if happens.
Going down the ecu route/reflash the software tomorrow, will update as soon as
29th Feb 2012 11:35 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
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Fingies crossed for ya.
29th Feb 2012 11:38 pm
character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
after that, refit new egr's and then do the low level actuator arm on the turbo
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or even both, perhaps you've worked on a vehicle with similar "min or max limits on newly installed injectors
