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Hollywood619
Member Since: 28 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 102
  
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| Harmon Kardon system and speaker replacement? |
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I have a 2007 US-spec HSE with the HK system and was wondering if anyone has tried replacing the factory speakers with anything that has little better construction. JL Audio sells a 3-way component system and I can build baffles to fit them and just hope that the crossover points are close to compatible (JL's are pretty flexible) I really only want to upgrade the front stage and center channel.
Thanks in advance for any inputs.
Nate "A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part"
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 29th Apr 2008 2:05 pm |
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jjvd21
Member Since: 16 Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1070
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I'm also looking to upgrade the HSE - HI ICE Harmon Kardon door and front dash speakers. Anyone know the wattage for the speakers? 16 D4 Landmark
05 D3 HSE V8
THE original D4 spotter
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| 29th Apr 2008 5:22 pm |
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Guy
Member Since: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Sitting Down, Facing Front
Posts: 1264
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There probably won't be any published specs for the drivers. These aren't off-the-shelf units, they are specially built by Harman Becker for the specific vehicle type. Personally, I'd be wary of swaps - it's likely that you'll end up with a theoretically greater power handling but worse subjective sound.
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| 29th Apr 2008 8:56 pm |
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Maverick
Member Since: 25 Jul 2007
Location: Lost on the misty mountain hop!
Posts: 2580
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As Guy says, I be wary of fitting different speakers! I think the HK system was designed specifically for the Disco and would be hard to get better sound from it! Ben
1996 Defender 90 300 TDi
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| 29th Apr 2008 10:54 pm |
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wiggs
Member Since: 03 Sep 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 14368
 
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Some info which may or may not be of use ...
The High line-Harman/Kardon audio speaker system is driven by an amplifier located under the RH front seat. The amplifier is controlled by the Integrated Head Unit (IHU) on the MOST bus and supplies 6x50 watts output, giving a total system power rating of 300 watts.
The Premium Audio - Harman/Kardon LOGIC7 audio speaker system is driven by an amplifier located under the RH front seat. The amplifier is controlled by the Integrated Head Unit (IHU) on the MOST bus and supplies 12x50 watts output, giving a total system power rating of 600 watts. G4 Gone ...but not forgotten
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| 29th Apr 2008 11:41 pm |
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Hollywood619
Member Since: 28 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 102
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Thanks for that info Wiggs.
At the very least I am going to remove the speakers and dynamat the surrounding area and place a thin layer of it between the driver and the plastic mounting. I also have a full set of foam-type "driver cups" that go in behind the driver and create a mostly sealed area behind it.
My problem is that some music with limited lower range is clear, while complicated music (like jazz/R&B) can sound tinny or muddy. I love the spatial effect of the Logic 7 system, I just think it needs a little more sound deadening. I am also building 2 small, sealed boxes to go under the rear seats (currently not foldable due to child seats) that I will mount JL Audio 8 inch subs into facing forward and that are also equippped with banana-style quick disconnects in case I need to fold the seats. The JL Audio 300/2 is very small and will fit under the center rear seat and still allow folding, and the small boxes wil fit under the side seats. I intend to use an Audio Control LCS-4 to tap the rear speakers (high-end powered line out to RCA convertor) so I can get a fuller range signal than simply tapping into the subwoofer.
As I have jusy rebuilt my home theatre system with new 40 inch 1080p LCD, 7.1 HD tuner and blu-ray player, I have to try to do these car stereo items without the knowledge of the Chief Financial Officer (wife).
Thanks again! "A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part"
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| 30th Apr 2008 8:07 am |
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jjvd21
Member Since: 16 Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1070
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If you could post a few pictures of the dynamat application it would be much appreciated. Thanks. 16 D4 Landmark
05 D3 HSE V8
THE original D4 spotter
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| 30th Apr 2008 1:28 pm |
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TallPaul
Member Since: 03 Jan 2008
Location: Near Reading
Posts: 1214
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Hey hollywood, I think Dynamat would help, but this is only based on having our Disco 4 days, and the wife's cd collection I have not given it a proper work out!
I think the challenge with changing the speakers is getting some that are rated well, most aftermarket have a good 100-150w plus rating, and with only 50w its going to sound a bit quiet. Unless you change all the speakers but thats a bit of a mission and a half.
With the removable sub, have you considered using a speakon not banana plugs, then it will not short out if you just have the plugs hanging. Also, you need to put a switch in the remote to the amp feed (which you will need to get from somewhere to turn sub amp - MOST or CAN bus adapters to get ignition sense are expensive, have you thought about this?) because without the sub connected you can't have an open load on the amp, it will not like that! Where did you plan to run the feed for the Sub amp as well, is there any holes in the bulk head you could use?
The setup I have in my Alfa (Disco is technically the wifes car...) is using a 4 pole speakon for my sub. I use the main channel for the sub, and the second to "loop" the remote sense for the amp through. When you unplug the 4 pole speaking, the remote feed is broken voila amp does not power up without sub attached.
Good luck in any case - and take some pics! 
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| 30th Apr 2008 4:01 pm |
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Guy
Member Since: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Sitting Down, Facing Front
Posts: 1264
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Guys - please do approach this with caution: it's not just to do with the power ratings of the drivers (which, on aftermarket units, are likely to be suspect anyway). Sensitivity, frequency response, and many other factors play a part, and loudspeaker system design is a real black art. The amplifier pack in the car is designed to work with the specific loudspeaker complement that's in the vehicle and those loudspeakers are tuned to suit the vehicle. You may be lucky and get some sort of improvement but you are quite likely to make things a lot worse. The sound system in the D3 was designed, developed and tested with sophisticated measurement equipment that you probably don't have access to.
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| 30th Apr 2008 4:19 pm |
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wiggs
Member Since: 03 Sep 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 14368
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Hollywood ..
there's a couple of pics of the front door speakers in my gallery here
http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=749
Are you connecting your speakers direct to the amp ..or exsiting speaker wires ? G4 Gone ...but not forgotten
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| 30th Apr 2008 4:27 pm |
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Eero
Member Since: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Forssa, Finland
Posts: 21
 
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As Guy says, "speaker wattage" should play almost zero importance in selecting the appropriate gear.
Dynamatting is a very good idea, but I'd stay away from the foamy cups intended to cover the speaker. Almost 100% of car audio mids are designed (those that actually ARE designed) for free air enclosures so sealing the area behind the driver is not a good thing.
Standard speakers and amp may be a better solution than a totally clueless after market installation, but the truth is that neither LR or h/k couldn't care less for tonal balance, staging, dynamics etc etc. So, if you choose your speakers wisely (forget the watts) and install them properly, the result will be far better than original. The h/k amp probably has a built in eq, so it may mess things up a bit, but a wise installer will not include it in the setup anyway. For amps, go for names like Genesis, Rockford, Rainbow, Audison etc.
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| 2nd May 2008 5:44 am |
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Hollywood619
Member Since: 28 Jun 2007
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 102
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Those are some great ideas guys (and gals?) For now I have 4 big rolls of dynamat. To answer the question, it has an adhesive backing and you can apply it by hand or with a small wood roller that comes with the kit. It doesn't really help with speaker performance, but it absorbs secondary resonance and frequencies that the speaker causes in the surrounding metal. I have found that many times a "tinny" speaker is actually performing fine and the sound is resonance in door skin. Anyways, I will try the sound deadening first. Believe it or not, the center channel is actually just set into a peice of plastic. I am going to make a wood baffle (mounting plate) for the center. I am also thinking of trying to change the staging of the front speakers. I was surprised to find that the mounting plate is so thick and there is still 1-1.5 cm clearance to the inner door skin. If I replace the mounting plate with mdf board layered and cut to a better staging angle to the center of the vehicle I think it will make a big difference.
I am still debating the subwoofer idea. I have an Audison VRX 2.250, but it too big for under the center seat. The JL is signal sensing so I don't need a remote wire. It also accepts both balanced and unbalanced high-level inputs so I may not even need a line driver.
For your other sound quality guys. If I change the speaker angle to stage them better, where is the agreed-on best position.... forward in the center, like the gear lever area, or back further in the armrest area?
Man.... I need to get a cheaper hobby! "A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part"
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| 5th May 2008 10:05 am |
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Eero
Member Since: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Forssa, Finland
Posts: 21
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Hollywood619 wrote:For your other sound quality guys. If I change the speaker angle to stage them better, where is the agreed-on best position.... forward in the center, like the gear lever area, or back further in the armrest area?
There is no ready answer. Most high quality speaker elements (tweeters) perform better if they are more or less directed towards the listener. Some can become too harsh, but on the other hand may offer better staging at the same time. So, it's almost always a compromise between tonal balance and sound stage.
A thumb rule is that the more directional a tweeter is, the better it's suited for use in-car. The wider the dispersion angle, the more you get diffraction from dash board, glass etc.
Finding the right cross over points, levels, eq'ing and phasing is at least as important as the right speaker angles - so it's an endless road..
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| 5th May 2008 1:19 pm |
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